@Sobex @danirabbit yes, elementaryOS is an example of a productized linux

and it is a good example

but i would not say that it reflects the lesson omarchy is teaching us

@ariadne @danirabbit Hmhmm 🙂‍↕️ .

What are omarchy's lesson we should be learning from ?

@Sobex @danirabbit

to understand the lesson, you must look at what omarchy actually *is*

which on a technical level, is not much

you are focusing on technical details when the focus of omarchy is *marketing*

@ariadne @Sobex @danirabbit it's pretty much "my way is the right way" with a lot of hype around it. sort of rails approach of convention over configuration but to linux.

@siwek @Sobex @danirabbit yes, hence my description of it as marketing

@ariadne @Sobex I’d say we’re kind of doing the opposite of Omarchy in that we do a lot of things that are not traditionally Linux-y and the prospect we’re selling isn’t, “be a leet haxor and rice your desktop”, but rather “Spend less time thinking about computer and more time doing interesting things”. The OS in elementary OS is not the product. The idea of not worrying about the OS is the product

@ariadne @Sobex which I think sometimes really disappoints that set of people who expect productized Linux. They wanted to feel like a leet haxor and use Terminal and tweak and customize things and that’s not at all what I’m selling

@danirabbit @Sobex yes, precisely. i think the aesthetic is an important element in the product design for *that* audience.

@ariadne @Sobex totally. That like vapor wave, bit fonts, etc aesthetic is very “Nintendo power glove” and I feel like the messaging hits on the white male youth anger at a world that isn’t as compliant with their supposed supremacy. Don’t be sad little white boy, you can “be somebody” from the comfort of your basement. Play with digital slaves. Embrace oligarchy. You’re the master in our vision of the world

@danirabbit @ariadne @Sobex well said but it's tragic that some people are this way

@danirabbit @ariadne @Sobex

"Welcome home, warrior, everyone is proud of you."

ref. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py9B1ePmpVs

@danirabbit @ariadne @Sobex

(clarification of intent: in this context, Omarchy is *un*-ironically doing what the song is satirizing (at least the way I interpreted it))

@danirabbit @Sobex yeah, basically, to me the challenge is to figure out how to make people feel empowered without the fascism

@ariadne for me the solution there is focusing on inclusive design. It completely solved my whole perspective on when and how to implement settings and what features matter to put it in a framework of how we can make the experience more inclusive

@danirabbit @ariadne @Sobex I thought all of those fuckers, leet people, used Kali, against all instructions, as a main OS

@danirabbit I think you're right to not focus on what those people want. The more important goal by far is usable personal computers for people who don't want to focus on their computer as an end in itself.

@ariadne @Sobex

@danirabbit @ariadne @Sobex I expect you're selling something more like my mom's 2011 iMac that wasn't running so well anymore, and she had newer computers, so asked me to fix it up before giving it away to one or another of the immigrant families our temple helps. I thought elementaryOS was the right choice for that, so on it went.

I don't think those new arrivals will have strong opinions about operating systems, but they'll need a smooth first-run experience, and elementaryOS sure has sanded that down for them.

@danirabbit @ariadne @Sobex dunno, maybe i've been at this for too long, but to me, most distros fulfill that job, except for rolling release things....
when i set linux up for friends, there is this one week or three where they run into hardware corner cases like sleep modes or the like, and then it just works....

@nettings possible! I find that the more experience someone has with desktop Linux the more they hate elementary OS, which I see as a success indicator personally haha

@danirabbit plz, can i haz l33t toggle updatez
( in all seriousness, not for elementary but in general, i would absolutely love some vim-style binded pretty css libadwaita gui that i can fly through)

@danirabbit fwiw, I feel like there are plenty us with lots of Linux desktop experience (since the mid-late 90s for me) who love elementary because of its simplicity and how well it works.

@nettings

@danirabbit @ariadne Hmm, silly question, what's Elementary's AI policy ?

(I'm wondering if there's a world where I can put it in my list as a noob friendly linux that isn't doing AI shit).

@Sobex we don’t use it! https://docs.elementary.io/contributor-guide/development/generative-ai-policy