Replying to @⁨monketman82@lemmy.world⁩

Thank you, I appreciate accurate data. I hate engaging with Instagram memes.

Now, if you’ll notice, this graph hasn’t actually had a full data refresh since 2024, which is fair, because real data analysis takes time, however, you’ll also note that the rate at which China has pushed forward with decarbonization has exceeded projections in the latest preliminary datasets. Now whether those datasets are reliable or not is unknown but we DO know that since the 2024 election, the US rate of fossil fuel emissions has spiked, which again would not be captured in a model based on 2024 data.

Which is what the original post was about. Recent preliminary data suggests US fossil fuel consumption has spiked hard in the US and is rising. So I’m not even sure what the guy who posted the Instagram meme intended to prove.

Replying to @⁨Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works⁩

ourworldindata.org/…/annual-co2-emissions-per-cou…

The US has been decreasing emissions for 20 years now. While China, as of 2024, was still exponentially increasing emissions.

cotap.org/per-capita-carbon-co2-emissions-by-coun…

Same with per capita emissions. The US has been cutting per capita emissions for 20 years, while China is still increasing.

Replying to @⁨Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world⁩

The US has been cutting per capita emissions for 20 years, while China is still increasing.

But they haven’t caught US yet!

United States: The average American emits roughly 14 to 15 metric tons of carbon dioxide per year.

China: The average Chinese citizen emits about 8.7 to 9.2 metric tons of carbon dioxide per year.

Next question: what’s the average CO2 emission per capita of Billionaires?

A billionaire’s total average carbon footprint is roughly 1.9 million to 3 million metric tons of (CO_{2}) equivalent ((CO_{2}e)) per year.

So, Billionaire’s income ratio is around 500,000:1 of an average US citizen, but their CO2 emissions are only about 170,000x - that makes Billionaires almost 3x greener with their greenbacks than an SUV commuting wage slave.

Replying to @⁨MangoCats@feddit.it⁩

“Easy” is irrelevant. The climate doesn’t care about which is easier.

The simple fact is that China accounts for 1/3 of total global emissions. If the US went completely carbon neutral today, global emissions would be cut from 38.6 Billion tons to… 33.7 Billion tons.

If China went completely carbon neutral we’d drop from 38.6 Billion tons to 26.3 Billion.

Everyone needs to cut their emissions. China is actively doing the most damage to the climate, however.

Replying to an earlier post

If Elon musk contributed 90% as much as all of Germany would you be equally happy saying Germany’s 80 million people held more responsibility than Musk for their emissions? Per capita is the only measure that makes sense as it is how much each person is contributing.

Another way of looking at it, Yunnan creates far less CO2 than the USA so by your logic the USA is worse than it. Repeat for every other Chinese province.

Replying to @⁨Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world⁩

I’m arguing against the assertion that “China is doing the most damage to the climate”. It’s obvious that the country with more citizens will cause more emissions, and it’s also completely useless! Or would you suddenly change your mind if China split into 5 countries, all less populous than the US?

Why should a Chinese person reduce their emissions, while each American emits so much more? You insist that arbitrary geographic divisions are somehow relevant, but they aren’t.

Replying to @⁨FooBarrington@lemmy.world⁩

Why should a Chinese person reduce their emissions, while each American emits so much more?

And now that I know you can’t read…

I have literally said we all do need to cut our emissions

Except one thing is a fact. Americans HAVE been cutting emissions, for 20 years now. US carbon emissions peaked in 2006. Current US emissions are at the lowest level they have been in 38 years.

China is STILL INCREASING emissions.

Or would you suddenly change your mind if China split into 5 countries, all less populous than the US?

China has a centrally planned single party economy. They have one government that makes these choices, and they have been and are consciously choosing to pursue emissions heavy power and manufacturing to secure economic dominance. It’s extremely relevant here.

It’s obvious that the country with more citizens will cause more emissions, and it’s also completely useless!

India has more people and 1/4 the emissions of China. Though they are also increasing.

Replying to @⁨Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world⁩

Why should a Chinese person reduce their emissions, while each American emits so much more?

And now that I know you can’t read…

Buddy, if you spend a couple seconds thinking about my question, you might notice that “We all do need to cut our emissions” is not an answer. I’ll try to put it in more explicit terms, try not knee-jerk-reacting this time:

Why should a person in China stop increasing their emissions to make profits, while so many people in America make so much profit/save money by emitting so much more on average?

You’re acting like this question obviously has a definitive answer, but it doesn’t!

Look, it’s totally fine to criticize China’s rising emissions on their own. But it’s really, really dumb to contrast their total with total US emissions - especially when you don’t mention anything about how many emissions are caused to supply the west with stuff. It’s great that US emissions are going down, but they’re still way too high because they provide cover for other nations to save money by using fossil fuels just a bit longer. Why are other countries morally wrong in climbing towards the level of America, as long as they stay below?

Replying to @⁨ParlimentOfDoom@piefed.zip⁩

I was going more for the absurdity of a single person emitting more CO2 than a township of 150,000 people, plus the underutilization / hoarding of this imaginary construct: money by the people who have more than they need - as you allude to.

I also agree: the price of things does frequently correlate with CO2 emitted. Even when you hire someone for a service that emits virtually no CO2, what do they do with that money? Turn around and spend it on things that do emit CO2. Much of the cost of goods has to do with the cost of the energy required to produce and deliver the good (again cost correlating with CO2 emissions).

The only “industry” I can think of that moves significant money around without generating CO2 directly is finance, though when the money quits running through finance’s internal spin-cycle and finally hits the real world, it’s again purchasing the relase of CO2.

Replying to @⁨AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world⁩

I do not know if it’s an excuse to for us to start emitting more tbh. I agree that a cleaner future is good for all of us and climate change is real.

I do wonder if there are times when figuratively putting your foot on the gas might be useful.

Would you agree that China’s excessive use of coal has worked out very well for them so far? I mean economically and by every other metric that you would consider a country successful.

Replying to @⁨kestrel7_7@lemmy.world⁩

So one year of increase

You’re moving the goalposts of this discussion. We’re talking about 2025-2026 activities. From the OP article:

"According to the Energy Institute’s latest Statistical Review of World Energy, US coal consumption increased by 10% in 2025, compared to a 0.7% rise globally. "

vs 9 years of decrease is still an overall decrease.

…so that point is irrelevant to the current discussion.

Also there’s a difference between China choosing to do something with their planned economy, vs. random wacky shit happening here in Freemarketstan

In this context, no there isn’t a difference. A net increase in coal usage is the only measure. Under that measure both the USA and China have increased domestic coal consumption for energy production.

Even if you want to try to play the “planned economy” card, I doubt in the 15th Five-Year Plan (2026–2030), which was formally approved at the National People’s Congress in March 2026, did the concept of $100+Brent crude prices exist as a recorded target. China has been buying up cheap Urals oil from Russia’s sanctioned shadow fleet of tankers for a couple years now increasing their strategic reserves (far higher than even the USA). Even those Urals shipments have largely curtained as its now open season for Ukrainian drones knocking out shadow fleet tankers by literally the dozen.

China is not sinning by increasing coal use any greater than the USA by just reacting to geopolitical market conditions and the need to continue to power its nation.

Replying to @⁨Redjard@reddthat.com⁩

They’ve been intentionally using coal to develop away from coal for decades. It’s been a long term strategic thing, using coal power plants to build solar panel factories, then shutting down the coal plants. Meanwhile the USA keeps using coal for fun basically, while being like “well the Chinese are using it too!”. It’s hard for me to see China as the villain here

Replying to @⁨Jhogenbaum@leminal.space⁩

The issue is that an increase in US coal consumption exists solely to placate Appalachians that can’t imagine a future beyond what Grandpappy did.

And it’s like, Appalachians do, in my opinion, fit the definition of “marginalized group,” but at the same time the only way of advancement that they accept is pretending the world can or should be like it was before the rust belt was the rust belt.