I like matrix too but am dealing with weird networking issues, across ancient devices. Issues around MatrixRTC, old android devices, using HTTP vs HTTPS and the like are making me not want to live on this world any more.

Well, there’s also IRC and XMPP. Could those work better for older devices? Dunno, but neither are encrypted, so don’t use them for anything sensitive. Signal is good if you want security, they’ve been audited a lot, but they are based in the U.S. which isn’t great.

I’ve also heard of Stoat (formerly Revolt) and Fluxer, both are relatively new, but I would prefer Matrix over both since it’s more easily self-hostable (+ all those different clients to choose from!)

edit: I really didn’t know, but looks like XMPP does support encryption! (and it’s enabled by default on most clients!)

neither are encrypted, so don’t use them for anything sensitive

I run XMPP - just wanted to say that all major XMPP clients (the ones I’m thinking of are Conversations, Monal, Dino and Gajim, among others) encrypt-by-default, you have to actively go out of your way to disable it per contact.

Oh whoops, I didn’t know that! That’s kind of neat, didn’t know had encryption. I will amend my comment

That’s actually pretty cool, I’ll be making an XMPP account then. Adding to my collection of chat apps!

IRC supports TLS encryption. Many large networks don’t actually have it enabled or use self-signed certs because they still think it’s the 1990’s, but if you make your own server you can use TLS just fine.

So I’m doubly wrong! That’s kind of neat

Not only does XMPP support encryption, it does the same double ratchet encryption scheme which signal uses.

Wait…IRC? As in Internet Relay Chat IRC? Can IRC do video calls now?

It’s been a damn long time since I used mIRC…but it IRC is back / more capable, I will rock that shit like it is literally 1999 again.

You know, I had to do a double take when you mentioned IRC, but it’s actually come a long way since I used it last.

github.com/ergochat/ergo

thelounge.chat

And unlike Jami, it really IS self hosted.

Good idea; thanks for that. I realise IRC doesn’t have native video / audio calling but that’s probably a smaller problem to solve / bolt onto that trying to juggle Matrix across multiple unruly devices

EDIT: … IRC has video and voice calls now?

github.com/AndroidIRCx/AndroidIRCx

Wat

IRC is great. The challenge is picking a client for the family, and getting them set up. It’s not friction free.

Just a little postscript for you, sbird

TL;DR the fam has settled on -

Ergo as IRC server: https://ergo.chat/
The Lounge as PWA IRC client: https://thelounge.chat/
Janus for video calls: https://janus.conf.meetecho.com/index.html
I will host all this on the Pi at my place and they can tailscale in.

So, it looks like ye ancient IRC has saved the day.

Thanks for the suggestion; I never would have thought of it.

PS: I’m tied, boss. Never volunteer.

I like matrix too but am dealing with weird […] issues

The quintessential Matrix experience

Try Matrix, they said. It will be fun, they said.

…

They.

Lied.

Don’t know man, Matrix has been pretty much set and forget for me since 2017 or 2018.

It sounds good but in practice it doesn’t work out; laptops sleep, people put their phones on airplane at night, whatever happens in life. The “best” solutions use some sort of cache-and-forward relay (thinking like DeltaChat relays, or I hear SimpleX is adding them) but I think most end up looking at Snikket (xmpp) or Matrix for the group management etc. on a central server. The Disroot group uses “Movim” which is XMPP highly customized to a social experience.

I use DeltaChat with friends and there’s a lot of things you can’t do because it’s essentially P2P with caching relays - like Jami, all control and data is stored on the device(s). If all you’re looking for is a Signal replacement it’s great (and why we use it), but if you want good group social controls you gotta go the central server route.

I think Jami here could do with caching relays like Delta has, could move this project to the next level.

I think they have that now, thus my interest

docs.jami.net/en_US/user/jami-for-servers.html