Aren’t apple like the least bad guys here with their phones? My wife is still using an almost 7 year old iPhone without any issues at all. It’s still fully functional and snappy to use, still using all the original parts (never needed repair)

That’s comparing tech with other tech, rather than comparing it with environmental impact. I think we need to decenter tech and focus on the environment as a matter of urgency.

My iPhone is six years old. But these devices will spend centuries in land fill. Apple’s recycling program is criticised for destroying phones that could have been repaired.

There is a long list of things not being done to extend the life of these devices, and the way they are repurposed later in life. All to the benefit of selling more devices.

idk, if we destroy the environment enough it woud create new innovative solutions for such challenges as breathing and seeing through fog.

That’s comparing tech with other tech, rather than comparing it with environmental impact.

I mean in that case, it would be best to not own any smartphone at all. Not having one manufactured at all is always the best option. And if you buy used, you’re helping someone else finance their next new phone down the line, so even that is worse than simply not owning a phone at all.

There are so many pragmatic possibilities that it shouldn’t be needed to present a false binary.

So the most ethical thing to do is steal someone’s phone.

If you want to compare it with environmental impact then its such a small issue its not worth discussing. We should be discussing farming, steel, power gen, etc. A phone lasting 5-7 years or lasting 10 is so minor in the zoomed out perspective.

That’s like saying plastic pollution doesn’t matter because climate change is a bigger issue.

Yes, other indistries are seriously problematic. But we cannot dismiss the rapidly growing mountain of discarded products, wasted precious minerals and toxic pollution. That’s before we even get to the human rights abuses that go hand in glove with their production.

We are beyond a stage where 62 million tonnes of ewaste are produced each year, and only 22% of it recycled.

Tech manufacturers cannot be held to account for bad farming practise, but they can for this. Also, some of those industries you mentioned are driven by tech industry demand.

That’s like saying plastic pollution doesn’t matter because climate change is a bigger issue.

yes its stupid thats why I wouldnt say that. But its the comparison you wanted to draw so we must address that phones do not create much waste in the grand scheme. They arent filling up landfills, generating a ton of emissions or byproducts. They are small and built with small amounts of rare materials as far as complex tech go they arent driving a huge amount of impact. 62 million tons of ewaste is nothing thats the entire world’s ewaste. for comparison the US generates 265 million tons of waste alone per year and the world generates 2.2 billion tons.

They’re the least bad guys.

Apple is great on longevity, but that’s not the issue here. Chip innovation has plateaued in recent years, so a 7-year-old iPhone is still plenty powerful. The hardware is solid, yet Apple locks the bootloader and never documents the chips, so running Linux on one means relying on exploits and reverse engineering.

In the 90s, the jump from 16 MHz to 233 MHz changed what a computer could do. A 1990 PC couldn’t run a 1997 game like Quake at all, and a 233 MHz machine ran it smoothly with 3D graphics. Today, going from 2.65 GHz to 4.26 GHz doesn’t unlock anything new. A 7-year-old phone runs the same apps and games as a brand-new one.

Once official support ends, you can’t just install another OS and keep using it. Great hardware, but not exactly open.

Again, this is comparing technology to technology rather than comparing technology to environmental impact. We need to extract these tech bro soundbites from our craniums.

Apple is great on longevity

It really is not. These devices become ewaste in roughly 7-9 years. But in my drawer are Apple phones that are almost 20 years old. They would be fine if Apple hadn’t let them become abandoned and security compromised. Please stop defending their negligence and mediocrity.

Fair points, and I think we mostly agree.

I’m not defending Apple. The point is that the hardware outlasts the software support, and because the bootloader is locked, you can’t do anything about it once updates stop. That’s the e-waste problem you’re describing.

I’d only add that support has improved from the early iPhones, which got just a few years of updates, to 6-7 years now. That’s better, but it’s still a company-set expiry date on perfectly good hardware.

Open bootloaders and documented chips would let those phones in your drawer stay useful.

Fair. And yes, it’s an unusual situation to be in where the Fairphone and iPhone seem to have similar support lifespans now.

I think we should organise to lobby our governments to force tech manufacturers to make obsolete devices unlocked and open spec in the way you mentioned (boot loaders and documented chips). Volunteers should have no barriers to maintain and support what would otherwise become landfill fodder.

Their phone repairs are crazily locked-down and expensive. If the key to longevity is repair, Apple is doing it’s damnedest to make it as difficult as possible.

To be fair Apple gets better repair ability scores across the board compared to other flag ship manufactures (nothing, google, samsung) according to ifixit though. https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/smartphone-repairability-scores

But on android you at least have the option to choose something not as hostile against repair ability :)

Oh, did the EU force them to make parts more available?

Because 5 years ago, you not only had to get the parts from Apple, you had to get the parts VERIFIED by apple after installation.

I think the Macbook had a sensor that detected when the macbook was closed and even that basic switch had to be Apple-validated.

Yea, I believe it comes from the EU but Apple is as always doing the least they have to do, to stay legal. And I even think that the VERIFIED think is still a thing with it technically working but made artificially worse with warnings and what not.

When it comes to updates, it's shifted in that direction in the last while. But updates are just one aspect, and with just about every other aspect, they're awful. Look at the way they fuck over independent repair shops. Look at the way they lock down their systems. And look at the way they make their devices as difficult as possible to repair. Then, look at the way they are pioneers at these practices. It used to be standard that you could install what you want on devices you bought and paid for. Apple was the company who drove the idea into the mainstream that the manufacturer could artificially restrict what you can install on your device. Same applies to having control over the OS. Same applies to the headphone jack. Same applies to repairability. They've been consistently spearheading the most destructive trends in the areas of user rights and environmental impact.

Until they stop supporting the device for OS updates and apps stop functioning. I have a couple older iOS devices that we still use but they cannot update past iOS 9 and 12, and some apps have ceased functioning in one way or another. So they’re fine for a little web browsing and the like, but that’s about it.

The big issue is when older communication standards stop being supported and you lose access to 3G, 802.11n, TLS1.2, etc. at that point, the device becomes an offline-only device.

That said, I have an iPad 2 I picked up in 2011 that still functions perfectly except for web browsing. Works great as a jailbroken emulator, an eBook reader, running all the same offline apps I used in 2011, and the original battery still lasts for 8 hours on a charge.

It would be a blessing if I could run Linux on my mini when it runs put of updates.

The mini is the perfect size for me too. With a new battery and supported, secure software, it could easily have double the life span.

All tech eventually becomes e-waste, especially if it has a timebomb in it known as a LI Battery…

All people die eventually too, but it’s not an argument to lower our standards of living.

If your argument is that we need to reduce consumption, I agree completely. But consumers alone cannot fix/improve this problem.

I use an iPhone 11 and it is still fully supported with updates. They still stock replacement batteries and screens at the stores. The issue I’m having with it is that the radio stack is old enough to predate 5G, so I get terrible signal these days and am considering replacement because of that. Can’t blame Apple for the carriers re-allocating their spectrum to 5G wayyy too quickly.

I’m not blaming Apple for what they cannot control, but what they can control. I wouldn’t let them hide their many product-lifespan failings behind that one issue.