Meta has hundreds of billions to chase superintelligence, but apparently can’t figure out how to remove AI videos depicting child abuse, even when journalists hand over the accounts. Facebook’s recommendation algorithm can find this content effortlessly. Shame the moderation team apparently can’t.

Can’t or won’t? They’re pretty good and removing women’s health information and other things fascists want them to.

They also have the energy to ban queer users and deadname indigenous folks

I’ve read (unsubstantiated) rumors of how they routinely allow ads of AI generated CP so this is totally on point for them

If they don’t care, make them care. That’s what courts are for: make criminals feel the law.

The U.S. courts? I wouldn’t hold your breath.

I don’t either, at the moment.

Yes, censor all the things we find distasteful! Burn the books, delete the disks!!!

If you put deleting child abuse images on the same level as burning books, you should seek professional help.

Or just make them care by making a bunch of gross videos about Zuckerberg and the entire Meta board members.

They’ll delete just those.

Is a video of a baby roasting in an oven even illegal? In general, are videos of violent crime illegal?

A lot of movies would be illegal, if that was the case.

Yeah tbh, they shouldn’t have to take that down. It’s the least of the bad shit they’re doing, and showing fake violence is just in poor taste.

No but it’s probably against their ToS so I don’t know why an AI generated gore video gets a pass.

The only footage that’s illegal from what I understand are sexual assault videos (including obviously csam) and snuff films (which are different because they are specifically made for distribution and generating revenue compared to “accidental” gore films)

Depends where you are as well and this is mostly from memory.

It’s in their rule that if it’s too graphic then they might take it down. Emphasise on “might”, it’s very arbitrary, and they take down content for less.

Inb4 “it’s AI generated it’s okay” that mean AI generated child porn is okay as well.

I would argue AI generated child porn is better than the alternative, perhaps if it was legal it would give people an option that causes no harm

And the abundance of online pornography explains why people don’t rape people any more.

That has been legal far longer than Gen AI has existed, we don’t know how much of an effect it has on crime stats but I am sure there less rape now than there has ever been

If cutting 100% of crime is the only time doing something is worth it then no laws would exist

OK, how about another angle. If you make AI CSAM a thing, you’ve given basically anybody in possession of real CSAM an out. Also, presumably real CSAM is still illegal, so the difference between a pat on the back and serious prison time is whether some poor jury thinks the 8 year old rape victim in the video looks real enough.

Get out of here with this shit. It’s gross.

I guess that’s a good argument about why it should be mandatory that all AI generated images should have some kind of watermarking to make them identifiable

generally a good idea, but not for this:

CSAM distributors will quickly figure out how to add the watermark to real content; what then?

then you’ve got an even bigger problem on your hands…

that could be mitigated with cryptographic signatures being attached to the direct output from corporate models and either needing that signature to match or having the full prompt and random numbers for a reproducible output.

There are actually studies showing that better access to pornography correlates with fewer sexual assaults.

This one for example.

I mean, it would help satiate the pervert(who just wanna look), but it will not make the actual rapist(who want the action, for the lack of better word) to stop, and CSAM is provided by the latter. I don’t see why using genAI CSAM to satiate the former would solve much of the issue, the former will just watch adult porn if there’s no child porn. On the other hand it’s not like there’s a lack of loli hentai.

And where would the genAI get its training data from?

Couldn’t the ai make child porn by just combining the concepts of porn and children? Like there’s no training data of basketball players who are pigeons because they’re not pigeons, but the ais are still able to make basketball player pigeon hybrids that are cluttering tenor for some reason.

I’m pretty sure there have been basketball pigeons before AI images were a thing.

There’s no rule saying a pigeon can’t play basketball.

Research shows that consuming CSAM, even if it’s artificial, may increase the likelihood of that person committing an act of abuse.

This. People reaaaaally don’t like that point, but video/fictional stuff should not be held to the same standard as actual, living people. Otherwise, we can kiss goodbye to 90% of the entertainment business. Movies, books, video games, pictures, all of those should be allowed to depict stuff, if only to criticize it.

Unfortunately, too many people think that if they don’t want to see something, no media of it should exist.

It would be very different if actual people were used, or even just their likeness, because then it actually can cause harm and distress. But this? People wasting their time defending pixels are doing only one thing: not defending actual people.

video/fictional stuff should not be held to the same standard as actual, living people.

Disagree.

Loads of countries treat animations or computer generated images the same as photos.

No one is “defending pixels”. The actual reasons are that the abuse of children should not be normalised, that authorities should not have to identify a specific victim, and that no legitimate artistic interest is served.

That said, the question of whether a child in an oven depicts child abuse according to the interpretation of the court is another question entirely, and I suspect that the answer is that it does not. Yes placing a child in an oven would be abusive, no an image of a child in an oven is not “child abuse material”.

Otherwise, we can kiss goodbye to 90% of the entertainment business.

Preposterous.

I agree with the points you’re making, but I’d also like to put in my two cents as a victim of CSA and CSAM production. Not that it makes me an any sort of authority on it; I just wanted to share my opinion.

I don’t think fictional material should be considered the same as real footage. In real material there is a victim whereas (unless a person’s likeness is being used) there is none in fictional material. The reason CSAM is so horrible is because of the fact there is a victim, not because the material itself is disturbing (which it is, don’t get me wrong). I think that making them equal crimes is a huge disservice to the victims and downplays the crime that was committed against them, both socially and legally. In my experience a lot of people already oppose CSAM more so due to the material being graphic rather than the actual assault and continued violence against the victim by possessing/sharing footage of it.

AI generated material will have been trained on real material so it’s not exactly entirely fictional.

Deleted by author

I appreciate that you probably have given this difficult area more thought than I.

I don’t think that fictional material really is considered the same as real footage, but I do think that possession of fictional material should still be a crime.

A criminal court process has two parts: firstly deciding whether the defendant is guilty of the crime they are charged with, and secondly deciding the punishment given the severity of the crime and the impact on the victims.

In Australia, if you’re charged with possession of CSAM then the fictional nature of the material is not a defense. Possession is a crime and it’s the same crime as possession of real images.

However, in the second part the judge is of course going to weigh the impact on victims in determining the sentence.

There’s a longer conversation to be had about the objectives of the penal system, but the abridged version is that I genuinely believe that disallowing the fictional nature of images as a defense helps prevent harms to potential victims. It would be dramatically more difficult to secure convictions against abusers if police need to identify a victim in each case.

The actual reasons are that the abuse of children should not be normalised

I don’t think we should normalise torture, non-child abuse, exploitation, war, deception, genocide, manipulation, etc. either, but I don’t give a crap if someone make a video of it.

I don’t think that was the point of the comment you replied to.

The point is that even if it was a real video, it’s not illegal. Just like a video of 9/11 is not a terrorist attack nor is it illegal, it’s just a video of one.

the video of the Christchurch mosque shootings is illegal in NZ and Australia.

A cartoon of Bart and Lisa having sex is classified as child pornography in Australia.

and a zillion other examples

And now we are back on topic!

Like your examples show, some videos of crime are in fact illegal in some places. It is however the videos themselves that are illegal, for any reason, not due to the mere fact that they depict crime.

The Christchurch shooting is a good example, the video had to be banned on its own, showing how such videos are not normally illegal. It had to be banned specifically.

And where do you draw the line?

For example, do you think CSAM should be legal as long as those in the material are fictional?

If you think that is not okay, would it make a difference to you if those in the material were not “realistic” (but still underage)?

I don’t think people are suggesting it should be illegal because they personally don’t want to see it, but rather because they believe that it is damaging to society as a whole.

drawn pornographic depcitions are generally legal and protected by the first amendment in the united states, even if the artist explicitly states the characters are minors.

Uh huh. Kinda sidestepped all my questions there. Where do you draw the line?

So, “drawn” kiddie porn is legal in the US. What about realistic AI generated kiddie porn? Is that protected by the first ammendment?

Do you think it should be?

Should you be allowed to distribute it, or do you feel its okay only if it stays in your personal collection?

las I checked it was being decided by the courts because the laws aren’t very clear and neither is the first amendment. I think that it’s legality probably should be handled on a case by case basis until people understand the technology better because “realistic” is unfortunately too vague for me to feel comfortable wanting laws using (imagine a “realistic” oil painting getting outlawed).

The usual line drawn is photorealistic. Mostly because they don’t want that used as a defense for the real thing.

I don’t draw a line. If something 100% made up upsets you, nobody us putting your nose in it.

Your “they believe that it is damaging to society as a whole” comment is terrifying to me, because a lot of people in power believe that the mere existence of some people is “damaging to society as a whole”.

For example, do you think CSAM should be legal as long as those in the material are fictional?

Yes. As long as the image is not created through raping somebody, it’s morally okay, since no real person was violated.

And where do you draw the line?

Anything which requires violating somebody to be produced.

The morality is actually a little greyer there. There is research showing that consuming cartoon or otherwise artificially drawn CSAM does in fact raise the likelihood of the person who consumes it actually committing an act of abuse against a child, instead of being an effective substitute to prevent such acts.

Therefore, it may be a good idea to ban such images even though their production is harmless.

It’s a difficult area of research, which is why it’s a shame that we need more data on the issue to inform our laws on banning or not banning artificially produced CSAM.

Do you have the link to the paper?

Amen.

I’m so mad that ai generated objectionable material is considered fine because it isnt illegal but someone draws a werewolf with its dick out and it gets removed for “promoting beastiality”

Source: involved in a lot of NSFW furry artist communities and constantly see peoples work being removed, flagged, or accounts lost for less.

Ah but you see, when something is hot it makes closeted conservatives uncomfortable.

You see the problem? To a conservative, nothing is more illegal than making them personally uncomfortable. And nobody is more inherently conservative than a billionaire media mogul.

If that was true they’d be uncomfortable around CSAM.

Edit: Because THEY find it hot, not suggesting CSAM is hot. Goddamn. I’m going to hell.

Oh, but let’s put on our thinking caps! What is it they always say? “Won’t somebody think of the children?”

“That’s my secret, captain. I’m always thinking about children.”

…I’ll catch up with you there, save me a seat.

Wolfman’s got nards.

i think the point isn’t that they should have to take it down but that they should take it down. not taking it down is a choice.

What? How? I mean… there are quite a lot of violent and graphic movies out there. So this should not be illegal. However, it has to be made sure that those videos cannot be seen by non-adults.

children watched beheading videos all the time and tutned out fine, why would this slop be any different?

Well, I know what you are trying to say, you just put it in a very extreme way. This is like saying that there are smokers who are 90yo, so it must be not affecting your health. A skewed view, because you don’t see the affected people, because they are six feet under. Same with traumatized people, who choose suicide because of all their experiences.

A bit of survivorship bias never hurt anyone that survived

Oh right, that was the term. Thanks for reminding me 😄

Why are you deflecting to illegality? Meta removes tons of posts that are completely legal when they don’t fit into Meta’s political agenda

I only rarely open Facebook, I can’t even remember when was the last time that opened it. I don’t have a Facebook account, and I generally don’t want to associate myself with that place.

Legality (or religion etc etc) doesn’t guide my morality, decency, or basic difference between right and wrong.

What does guide your morality? I personally like the idea of virtue ethics, but so far I haven’t had time to properly familiarize myself with the concept. My understanding is that a virtue is a character trait that promotes human flourishing, and actions are good if they align virtues.

Try to make a video of Zuckerberg roasting and see how fast it will be taken down. Double standards much?

That would honestly be hilarious. Would he be trussed and basted?

I’ve never mastered Blender to a degree where I would be able to produce such a video.

Despite my wording it doesn’t mean that you specifically should to produce such a video, it was more of a thought experiment. My take is that if such video were produced and published on any of Meta’s platforms it would remain very little time online, unlike the mentioned roasted baby video FTA.

It is perfectly legal for Meta to remove content they find objectionable. WHICH content they find objectionable is what is concerning. Tits? Right out. Baby killing? Stay.

Sorry that big tech isn’t censoring the things you want them to censor. We should give them more money so they can censor everything anyone finds objectionable.

Damn what a brave warrior you are, battling for your rights to look at fake CSAM on the family oriented website. You definitely showed that snowflake! Nobodies taking this guys baby-getting-killed-in-an-oven video down. No way sir.

No but actually wtf are you saying? Its facebook we’re talking about, not fucking liveleak or something

wrbsite content changes over time, usually to be more puritanical, reddit used to have beheading videos occasionally go on r/all then they banned those subs and now they don’t have r/all.

Idc. I think its good that extremely violent content is hard to access. Not illegal, just very hard to acces. No it shouldnt be widely avilable on reddit either. Leave that shit to the sites about that, like liveleak or worldstar, somethingawfull, or torrents.

Insisting on ease of acces to gore and violence is WEIRD AS FUCK.

It’s so weird that censors are more concerned about sex than violence. Both should be allowed, though.

Infamously:

Breastfeeding videos? Out. Classic art with boobs? Out.

ISIS beheading videos? Actual animal mutilation videos? IN!

Beheading a boob? Out. Animal mutilation by a feral naked woman with a machete? Out.

I’m sure the Trump regime will charge a large tech company with crimes any day now. \s

If fake babies roasting in ovens was a bad thing, how come The Sims never got cancelled? 🤔

SIGNIFICANTLY less realistic

Only someone who regularly roasts babies on the barbie would know this 😉

Where’s the video? Something tells me it’s not that realistic.

Also, this reminds me of the Bonsai Kitten panic at the turn of the century.

People called DOOM realistic when it came out in 1993.

If I was my current age back then I would have asked those people what drugs they were on to see demons IRL.

Allegedly they used Doom to desensitize soldiers?

Not Doom, no, but the military did (and probably still does) have an FPS video game it used for training.

America’s Army

Yes, but having played like VS3 or something of AA, in the early 00s, AA is a lot more… structured and realistic in the sense of the job rather than the amount of gore it had.

Marketing stunt. They were doing shit like this in the 90s to keep enlistments up.

Marketing stunt. They made an official mod and stuck Marines™ on it. They were doing pathetic shit like that in the 90s to keep enlistments up. It was never meant to be a real “simulator.”

Couple shrimps on the barbie, eh?

I’ll bite. Modding a game is your business; it’s up to each internet board to decide if that mod or its depictions is acceptable within its terms of use.

Facebook’s terms of use probably prohibits depicting pictures of babies in ovens, thus, if it’s imposed on some and not others, that’s not the correct implementation of their own terms of use·

This isn’t a mod.

It’s a bug.

🤔 but why does the burned baby texture exist?

A modder made it.

It’s not a whole texture; it’s just a hue change over whatever is on the grill. Normally the food items aren’t even 3D objects, they’re 2D sprites.

Tho apparently, someone did make a mod after the bug was fixed that allows you to grill babies on purpose instead of it just randomly happening if you attempted to grill while holding a baby.

It’s a mod.

Fun fact: I don’t care about Meta. Fuck them.

Holy shit y’all love censorship. Puritan shit here but it’s okay cause you hate ai 🤣.

Unpopular opinion:

There are actions that are illegal. Recordings of those actions is illegal. Generated material counts as art. Also movies count as art. If those show an illegal action, it is not illegal. It is art. And should be protected, whether you like it or not. Same category as freedom of speech.

How does intent play into this?

Personal, unprofessional opinion: it plays a huge role, when it comes to a possible sentencing. Judges value factors such as intent and remorse, to adjust the sentences. However, it has to come to a case first and for that, something legally questionable has to happen. We are at the stage, where it is probably only morally questionable, but not legally.

Generally that’s still true. No one is being persecuted by the government over this. But Facebook is not the government, and is within their rights to remove objectionable or distasteful material.

Facebook doesn’t view it as objectionable or distasteful, never has; same guys been running it since its inception as a rate your classmates site. Nothing has changed with the platform, but I do appreciate more people talking about how shitty it is.

Give me a break with this free speech stuff, as if meta isn’t constantly deleting “legal” posts it doesn’t like for political or social reasons.

This has nothing to do with legality, it’s a question of morality. Meta isn’t the government and we can absolutely call them out for their immoral policies.

Absolutely. I was only talking about the legal aspect. The morality is absolutely questionable. Besides that, it is probably very distasteful as well. I just don’t see the point of being upset about something, that is neither happening the first time, nor was unexpected. It is their platform. They can do whatever they want. And we are free to not use it.

Well, maybe this stuff can be called art or free speech. However, the US constitution only guarantees that the government can’t persecute you for your expression. It says nothing about corporations or private individuals.

Facebook is not the government. Facebook can and should do something about hateful material on its platform. People aren’t calling for the those posting AI child torture images to be arrested - they just want Facebook to stop spreading their material.

If you decide to use AI to create child torture porn, you should at least be forced to publish it yourself. Why should Facebook help you?

Damn, so much for “protecting the children” ig

Think of the childred has never meant what they want you to think it means

People who use facebook are fucking nuts…

I’m going to agree but also point out that this notion that Facebook is somehow the coalescence point for the world’s jackasses is totally delusional.

The world is filled with morons, spend 5 minutes on any platform and you’ll see that.

There is nothing special about the younger generation and the apps they use, they are just as fucking ignorant as the Facebook users. I mean really, spend a few minutes on any social media app and you are bombarded by the pointless thoughts of every jackass who’s ever felt they had some magic idea they just need to share.

Or, old. I was saved because I chose a small Friendster clone to make my profile and then MySpace became popular and I was too lazy to build it anew. Also Facebook profiles are closed to non-members.

Also Facebook insists on real names and I was raised in the belief an online handle and a meatspace identity are kept separate, and never the twain shall meet.

It means I also dodged the social network game craze. I never clicked a cow or farmed a ville.

However, so many of my peers have Facebook accounts, and may have had to share their Facebook passwords with bosses who didn’t trust them.

Well how else are you supposed to cook fresh baby back ribs, not like it’s beef and you can get it anywhere. Acquiring an infant is a lot like donating a kidney, they always ask questions like “where did you get that?” “Who’s is that?” And “Why does it have a bite taken out of it?” then when they stop asking stupid questions they start shouting shit like “Put your hands up!” Upside to the latter is that I get roast pork alongside the baby back ribs, still though youd expect them to be a bit more grateful.

Found Jonathan Swift’s Lemmy account.

Who?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

A Modest Proposal for Preventing the Children of Poor People from Being a Burthen to Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to the Publick, commonly referred to simply as A Modest Proposal, is a 1729 satirical essay by the Anglo-Irish writer and clergyman Jonathan Swift. The essay, written from the perspective of a fictional narrator, suggests that the Irish poor could ease their economic troubles by selling their children as food to wealthy gentlemen and ladies. In English writing, the phrase “a modest proposal” is now conventionally an allusion to this style of deadpan satire.

When I still used Facebook would regularly report imitation sites and posts pretending to be national news outlets as impersonation and misinformation. They would never do anything about it. On Instagram I’ve reported openly hateful accounts calling for violence against groups, as their account name or bio and it doesn’t violate their TOS according to the responses I’m getting.

Same. I would report stuff multiple times. Things obviously criminal in nature.

End of the day, Facebook is that desperate for engagement. They’ll allow anything to happen on the platform.

It’s on purporse.

hint: is the baby roasting in oven video accompanied by a hasbara/description of “this is what hamas/palestinians do to Israeli babies”?

That would explain a lot.

Wow. They don’t want to offend the manosphere that’s been making nazi jokes for ten years now. Ha ha, killing people in ovens, isn’t it funny? /s

Suckerberg is such a piece of shit.

It’s like Fox not wanting to offend their audience by telling them the truth.

Is he not Jewish? I don’t understand how he can so completely kotow to the white nationalists that I can no longer block from my Facebook feed.

Saving the children profits as usual

Take the normalized cruelty and punching down that most are brainwashed into, and give the apes ideas, sickness called freedom.

Let me see if I have my pedo-billionaire glasses tinted correctly:

School shootings are caused by violent video games, teenage depression, and propping doors open. But promoting Nazi-fascist ideology while posting videos that dehumanize others? All good!

Fascist ideology is specifically about dehumanizing others. Its premise is that some humans are persons while others are not.

Its actual premise is that no humans are persons but property is, specifically huge amounts of capital.

But they don’t say it that way, lest their alt-right warboys realize how expendable they are.

Man, we don’t need these graphic details in the headline. “AI-generated child abuse videos” is plenty of info.

Will no one think of the artificial children!?

This is not the meaning of my reply.

Moderation is completely fucked. Tried reporting shit and nothing ever happens unless one is a business tycoon, a celebrity at the level of Taylor Swift, or a government affording to formally file a complaint.

Thank You, I was literally just about to open up Facebook for the first time in a couple of weeks. Then I saw this and didn’t, I remembered why I don’t use it any more.

“Meta Is Refusing to Remove AI-Generated Facebook Videos of Graphic Child Abuse, Including a Baby Roasting in an Oven”

The future fucking sucks.

If its any consolation, the past sucked too 🤔

everything sucks.

except for every girlfriend I’ve ever had.

Don’t forget your vacuum cleaner.

This is the present. The Future will be even worse.

Only if we all believe that - we can work together to create a beautiful future

Yeah, I used to be an optimist.

Yeah, I used to be a pessimist! Have you heard of the Georgia Guidestones? It doesn’t do any good to give into fear, stay informed but protect your energy. We must resist evil!

I identify as a cynic, which I define as: a disappointed optimist.

Israel literally accused Palestinians of doing that.

Well of.course not! They’re too busy fighting Radical Leftism.

Obviously this is true when Epstein’s client list couped the government.

Everyone is fine with it

Facebook never cared about actual child abuse and sexual exploitation. why the hell would you expect them to give a fuck about AI generated child abuse.

Name all the ai children Zuckerberg and they’ll start caring.

meta - another state run media. fox. sinclair. spectrum. twitler. etc. They do the state’s bidding (trump) and the state says “do what you will”.

media control = control of the masses. there’s nothing new or revolutionary about the idea, but it happens at the speed of light now. True or not.

They only care about engagement and growth. Damage to our social fabric, psychological disruption, hardening of positions, suppression of critical thought, encouraging anger … Fuck it!

Move fast, break things… including social fabric.

Really? I’ve reported literal attempts to encourage violence against people, and its NEVER against community standards

Hence why in Australia, going to be super happy if the law passes to allow us to forcefully only show things we’re subscribed to.

There’s going to be so many right wing ragebaiters getting upset

Hence why in Australia, going to be super happy if the law passes to allow us to forcefully only show things we’re subscribed to.

Which, to be honest, should be the default anyway.

That’s the argument being had

I’ve already moved off it, Mastodon is a much nicer feel. In fact I try not to use anything Meta including WhatsApp.

don’t forget threads either. it was ripped entirely off of mastodon.

Always have laughed at Zuck’s claim that Threads had such a large user base just after the launch. By all accounts , anyone with a Meta account became a Threads user.

I’m trying to cure my immediate peer group by introducing and promoting Signal over Whatsapp. It’s an uphill battle.

My family group decided to move when I spat the dummy after Meta decided to harvest all the contacts for WhatsApp users. Effectively they are the only ones I use messaging with but for getting others on is a long road.

how do i promote Signal for a family group without looking like an stupid AD? i hate whatsapp.

But think about our children!!

you know how to make them care?

start generating AI videos of rich people roasting in ovens.

“Kinky.”

So I can finally get an Ai to get my Fully Armed Fetuses gun control law pushed through. Ai won’t touch it.

Can’t abort babies if they have little AR-15’s in the womb as mandated.

I wanted to see one of these awful videos for myself, so I went to Google and started typing “Facebook baby in oven” when Google suggested to add “how long” 😂

Google, 30 minutes later: “Wait, you meant baby potatoes, right? RIGHT?”

Well you don’t want to undercook them. They’ve got all sorts of germs.

Yeah, and you want time for the stuffing to cook properly too.

When I ask how oven, you ask

Make the next video include Donald Trump as the abuser and his own children’s faces as the babies.

Watch how fast that shit gets taken down.

Nor they care about Brazil, all left-wing accounts getting banned or suspended.

I imagine the baby roasting in an oven is Israeli propoganda. Anything the zionists want in the US they get.

I can’t say I care about these videos either while real children are still going hungry. Save your activism for children that exist please

is this the new “selective altruism”

There may be some merit to the argument that people who get off on this stuff can do so without harming an actual child. Of course, there’s the counter argument that this stuff can normalise this sort of abuse and make it more likely to occur to a real child. There’s also the fact that these AI gen tools are trained on existing data, they’re not making this shit up, they don’t have imagination. So I’m pretty sure that the training data will have included lots of material of actual children being harmed. Certainly there are real children in need, and yes they need help. But this sort of material being published should concern all of us. What happens when your activism on behalf of hungry children is met with people pointing to these torture videos and saying “Lol could be worse!”

Is there a simple alternative without political, social or privacy red flags to recommend for my family group chat?

Signal, or RCS (also has end to end encryption now)

Glad to see Meta is finally not censoring conservitive content. /s