For staying positive, staying positive won’t prevent disaster, but it can help you move past it. For saving money, ideally invest it, either get a high yield savings account at >3% interest which (roughly) beats inflation. Or try an index fund if you can save that money for long term.

yeah i just hate it when disaster happened on innocent people and i do invest yet inflation is just too high. life is just that bad.

We live in a world ruled by billionaire pedophiles, so the system rewards behavior similar to that.

On the other side of that - do not worry about being a “nice” person when that means your own well-being is being taken away. Be kind to yourself first (how you can, I know it’s not easy), then try to be around people who have similar ideals.

Society at large can be soul crushing. Life is hard and not fair. I don’t have an answer for you beyond what I wrote but I hope you can find some rest and a small relief in your near future.

thanks, lot of stuff happened to me, so its actually really hard to stay being nice person and i just hope that its better in the future.

Most of these posts assume that the goal for being nice and good is FOR the rewards. Like, “I donate to my homeless shelter all the time, and do I get any thanks? The HELL with them!” That is where it usually fails. The real trick is being strong enough to stay nice DESPITE the lack or rewards, or even inconvenience. You are nice and good because it’s a core of who you are, not just for flattery and incentives.

I’m nice because it makes me feel good. That’s the only reward I need.

Same. But another thing I add when I don’t feel like being nice is “be nice out of spite.” Spite is against a universe trying to make me mean and bitter. “Oh the Universe is cold and uncaring,” yeah well, fuck the universe, then. I’m not doing for the universe, I am doing it for me.

Right, you shouldn’t expect to be rewarded for it.
I expected also more negative things or at least people taking it for granted but to my surprise I got very positive reactions from a few basic kind acts.
When I hear people told my GF I’m always there for them and one of the few people they can count on that means a lot.

Yeah, getting to be nice and spreading smiles and just happiness around is all anyone can hope for.

You win some and lose some. Careerwise or monetarily it’s tougher but not inherently. Just capitalism. And I’d rather lose there and win in warmness and having nice and amazing people around

“What you’re talking about is the theory of Moral Desert Elenor, that we do good things for the rewards.”
“The real question is what do we owe to each other“
“The drinks are on me. Good luck.”

it feels like this in video games where you actually get rewarded more for being evil.

video games often inspired by real life so i am not suprised

Kotor my beloved

Practicing these things

• Honesty
• Responsibility
• Kindness
• Generosity
• Compassion

have yielded wealth beyond measure. Idk about “good and nice.”

Try to consider being kind as its own reward, rather than something you do to gain another result

i cannot understand being kind as its own reward, even people that donates and helps people in the street do monetize their content to get rewarded in form of attention and money which is another result

Most people helping in the street are not monetizing it as content. Just the ones you see on YouTube

Pretty much all of the examples you provided happen to shitty people too, probably at a hiring rate in many cases. The benefit of being a good person on those situations is that at least you can take pride in not being a turd. Take your list, and reverse the logic for each input and see if that would make you feel better.

• Maintained a crappy attitude, then misfortune strikes.
• Spent all of my money, inflation happens.
• Was a jerk, taken advantage of.
• Was a liar, get hatred.

Just a handful of examples.

that examples is what supposed to be happened and totally deserved, what is not fair it also happened to nice person and what is the point of pride if it is not rewarding at all?

If you’re being honest and nice to be rewarded, then you’re doing it wrong. You do it because it’s the right thing to do.

so basically if you are guaranteed to get lucky and rich, basically having easy mode by become evil, you still choose to become nice and honest person?

I would, because I have a conscience, and I’d rather not be rich than be a rich twat. But also, the assumption in your comment is that evil people are guaranteed to be lucky and rich, which isn’t universally true. There a many good people that are lucky and rich and many evil people that are lucky and rich.

Bernie Madoff is an evil person that was extremely wealthy and evil and it caught up to him. Trump is evil and wealthy with power. I’d rather be dead than be either of those people.

You should be a good person because it’s the right thing to do, not because you expect a reward or wealth.

Bad shit will happen. Shit happens to everyone. It has nothing to do with who you are as a person. But if you’re trying to do good and be good, that can be a comfort in trying times, because how you feel inside is what matters when it comes to who you are.

Do you want to be a good person? What does that mean to you; how do you expect a good person to behave? How do you feel when you act against those expectations?

When shit happens you can feel bad because shit happened AND feel bad because you were rude about it… or you can feel bad because shit happened but ALSO feel good because at least you tried to be kind and understanding and didn’t yell at anyone or make someone else feel bad.

I’d rather feel bad (about things) and good (about myself) than bad (about things) and bad (about myself). That is the reward: at least you tried.

tbh what i want is become rich, succesful, lucky, have many friends, healthy, and have no problems in life, literally living in easy mode and so far being nice for me doesnt give me those thing i want.

Those things are not dependent on if you are nice or not (well, it’s easier to make good friends if you are nice, of course).

You’ll never live in easy mode regardless of if you are nice or mean. You need money and other such privileges for easy mode (and even then everyone has their struggles).

You can choose between struggling and being a good person, or struggling and being a bad person. Good or bad doesn’t change the outcome.

Moral and ethical behavior ultimately results in fewer problems and a better experience over all.

I’ve seen plenty of selfish people (whose actions often harmed others), and they ultimately destroyed their own lives through their folly.

I’ve known a lot of selfish wealthy people and most are pretty miserable - paranoid, lonely, etc. I also know a handful wealthy people who are kind, generous, and humble - they have amazing lives.

I know people who have led very simple lives, who worked hard, just did without when they couldn’t afford something, and avoided the greed and materialism of mainstream consumerism - that takes self-discipline and a special kind of consciousness. Ultimately their legion of friends and neighbors helped them when they got knocked down.

What you are seeing when evil men prosper is not their own work or evil designs; it is the safety net that has been given to them to prevent accumulating the consequences of their actions. donny, Musk, and their peers all were raised in extremely privileged circumstances. They have been protected from the consequences of their evil deeds their entire lives - you don’t have that. You won’t get away with anything because you don’t have a rich father to pay your bail, hire a top lawyer, or buy a Supreme Court Justice a million-dollar RV.

Material things do not guarantee happiness. Try reading some Epictetus, Seneca, or my favorite, Marcus Aurelius. This is a topic of frequent dialogue among the Stoics.

This sounds like either bad mood or depression, depending on how long it has been going on.

My impression is that you’re getting way in over your head on these issues when it’s just your body failing to produce the right endorphins.
Yes, having successes can help to produce endorphins, but our bodies are dumbasses. Literally going outside when it’s sunny is often more effective. Doing sports is often more effective.

Yes, this means struggling against it some more. Having depression is not easy. But I’m also saying that the solution might be much simpler than fixing the whole world. And you should not focus on fixing the whole world, you should focus on fixing your dumbass body.

The ideal, if you want to get nice behavior out of people, is to be strict and fair at the same time with them. If people are nice to you, you treat them ten times more nicely. If people are mean to you, you treat them ten times more meanly, and seek out every opportunity to break their happiness until they surrender. You do not have to be evil; it is not good to always be mean like the evil people do, since they create enemies who will come to you for support, and that is their weakness. You just have to be just and measured, rewarding those who do you well, and punishing those who do you wrong.

Most of the things you listed are not moral things.

• staying positive
• making friends
• looking for a better job
• saving money
• selling online
• therapy
• religion
• sleep

All of these have nothing to do with moral good or evil. An evil person can stay positive that their plan to steal credit from coworker will result in their promotion. An evil person can make friends and take more than they give from the relationship. An evil person can take a better job that exploits vulnerable populations. An evil person can hoard wealth… And on and on.

It seems like you are saying things aren’t working out for you financially, socially, etc. And for a lot of that cognitive behavioral therapy can certainly help you reframe bad thinking and patterns to make things better. That doesn’t mean all your problems are solved, but it can make things better.

Many of the things you listed are wise things to do rather than morally good. And even if they don’t result in your idea of “success” they almost always result in something better than having not done them. For example saving money. Let’s say you save 10,000 and inflation makes it only have the purchasing power of 8,000. You find yourself in a spot where you are unemployed and that 8,000 is going to be a saving grace. It will help your life way more than if you had blown it on 10,000 worth of vacations or consumer goods.

Being a genuine good human doesn’t make life easier, but it gives you peace of mind, because it’s the right thing to do.

And if people feel, that you mean it genuinely, they are much more likely to help you back.

i still doubt that “they are much more likely to help you back” when i done plenty of right thing yet either much more likely betrayed or taken advantage of.

Being nice doesn’t mean being naive and letting people taking advantage of you. Some people simply don’t have good intentions, learning to identify those patterns is a skill you can train.

Do no harm and take no shit.

Being nice is an act of rebellion in a cold, uncaring world. If it is your nature to try to do good, don’t let other people not being there yet stop you being yourself.

unfortunately there is limit for it, i am already at the point i am so tired of being nice.

Many of us feel that way sometimes, I have even recently felt that way after a couple of extremely rough years relating to a couple of friends who have needed a lot of support of various kinds (please forgive me, I would much rather not be specific with any of this, not my stories to tell and not the place to tell them).

Then another situation calls for it (I had a big one just today, possibly even the biggest ever one off example, for the sake of an ex no less- although I was furious until I spoke to them about it all, in truth) and I couldn’t imagine doing anything else.

The reward; although I feel a little dirty calling it a reward; is that when someone needed help they actually got it instead of just getting fucked over for the nth time. I don’t care if my impact is limited or even meaningless, ultimately so am I, and it wasn’t to me.

If you don’t feel like that, that’s okay, you took the step to try anyway and I genuinely respect that. You don’t have to give all of yourself, take a step back and look after yourself when you need it, but the world could always do to be a softer place when you feel ready again!

yeah i dont feel that unfortunately, i feel that is wasted time and energy tbh. i doubt world is softer place, in fact i feel it getting harder.

Honestly, it sounds like you might be depressed, but if so I get that too. For the people you helped it got softer, it doesn’t have to directly relate to ourselves to be better.

It’s less financially rewarding because most of the developed world exists in the context of late stage capitalism and / or oligopoly.

yes those big corpos can run away with anything even its bad stuff.

You’re going about this all wrong. Morality is similar to religion in that it’s make-believe. Good vs. evil discourse is unserious, despite most people in bourgeois states taking it seriously, as well as corporate media.

Previously:

This “evil/not evil” metaphysical dichotomy is a moral framework. There are no intrinsically ”evil” people, and I would drop that moral framework.

Philosophy professor and YouTuber Hans-Georg Moeller:

• Why Sam Harris is Wrong - A Critique of Sam Harris’ "The Moral Landscape"
• If Morality Exists Everything Is Permitted. (Q&A)
• Hans-Georg Moeller - The Moral Fool: A Case for Amorality

I agree that no one is “intrinsically” evil.

However, sadly, I’m personally convinced that we are all defacto evil by a secular definition. That definition being that evil is any action that causes unnecessary suffering to any other being.

Now, one can ask nuanced questions like, is any suffering necessary? But such lines of thought commonly degrade into silly trolly problems that are just dilemmas which only arise in pre-existing systems of unjust social order based on domination of others.

Nevertheless, it seems inescapable that most people live their lives within societies which require a tacit complicity in crimes against humanity. This appears to be the case at least in the Imperial core and most of the empire’s vassal states.

“Escaping” such systems to preserve not just one’s own dignity, but also one’s own humanity and innocence seems like the only reasonable course of action. And yet almost no one seems to be actively engaged in such escape. One can deduce likely explanations for such an observation. It is probably really difficult to escape such systems. It is also probably really difficult to even recognize that we exist within such systems, given that those systems are often characterized by their saturation of simulacra and consumerist hyperrealism.

But perhaps the simplest explanation is that the ideologically individualized subject living in such states are simply too inured by the treats offered by their so-called civilizations, and selfishly choose to continue participating in these societies – which, I will be honest, seems pretty deliberately evil to me, so long as the consequences are easily enough visible.

This just sounds like life. You sound like you’re in a depression slump because I start to view things the same way when I get in these slumps.

Being a helpful person is actually more rewarding to your well being than being a scammer. Read or listen to the YouTube audiobook, “The Art of Happiness by Dalai Lama”

If it wasn’t, everyone would do it.

agreed, sometimes i think “god” is believed to be almighty but yet so stupid. if i am god, i will simply make system that instantly rewards nice person and punish bad person, then all is solved, world become utopia.

Why are you treating this like it’s transactional?

Your character is a reflection on you and not a ticket to preferential treatment.

because i prefer that nice person is fairly rewarded, they deserve good treatment but in fact it often happened backward instead.

You can be nice, but establish boundaries. You don’t have to set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

i do set boundaries, i stopped once i was taken advantage of but still i feel that i am just wasting my effort of being nice which is frustating.

What makes you feel like you’re putting in effort?

i spent some time and energy to help them, yet what i got is taken advantage of. those time and energy can be used for something else.

What time and energy are spending?

Edit: I’m asking for examples because there are several things it can be. Right now, part of it may be that you’re setting yourself on fire to keep others warm, then you’re angry that your response isn’t reciprocal.

as example i contribute like listen and help giving advice to their problems, being as friendly as much as possible too and never triggers fight or conflict whatsoever but then one day, i am no longer able to as helpful as i am before and those ppl decided to ghosted me.

Yeah, it feels you’re giving others time when they won’t give it back. When you say you do so without causing a flight or conflict, maybe do so. Your time is valuable and also maybe they need to hear what they don’t want to hear.

• tried theraphy, the solution only dont think about it, its okay (if only it was that easy)

the usual response is to try a different therapist

nah i dont want to waste any more money and time just to being told like that, i prefer to treat it myself as much as possible.

What the fuck does any of that have to do with being a good person? Literally every single thing EVERY SINGLE THING listed is about yourself.

Modern people in my experience work under the idea of “everyone’s dirty so it’s fine if I’m doing amoral acts”, if you’re doing the opposite you are showing them that there’s a way, integrity, goodness or whatever you wish to call it. They will hate you for it, but that’s not a fault of your own, it’s just their psyche trying to defend themself, not quite extensional threat but to their eyes it’s an eye sore.

So a bunch of the things you wrote have nothing to do with being nice. I wonder if you could provide a clear definition of what being nice actually is. Religion? Sleep? That’s got nothing to do with niceness.

But look clearly you need to think about who you’re being nice to. If a person treats you like dirt, there’s no good reason you should try to be nice to them… So I’m trying to figure out what your framing is, because maybe you took some advice somewhere and applied it recklessly and thought you would get good results.

I’m late but as others have said, your logic is a little wonky. I would prescribe a dose of philosophy. Start with Plato.

Being nice isn’t about getting stuff for yourself

As a trans person get this so much. I’ve turned mean and dry as a person, specially to men. Somehow making fun of the men attracted to me gives me some sense of power I never have.

Have you tried to just sit in silence? That’s rewarding as hell.

doesnt work for me, it actually triggers my anxiety much more.

Honest answer you don’t wanna hear?

If you’re good to reap a benefit, you’re not good. You just tried maximizing your own profit by this and failed.

Being “good and nice” is an ethical decision and will not inherently reward you. Being evil is easy, as it’s our native state of existence. Egoisim, egocentrism, anthropocentrism. A cold heart can’t take any harm.

Being evil makes life in an evil world (capitalism, humanity itself) much easier. Yes. But also you’re part of the problem, not the solution. Even though noone gives a shit what you insect (no insult, just emphasizing our insignificance) do.

You will never be rewarded for doing the right or good thing. Or extremely rarely. Mostly you’ll be ridiculed, scammed, made fun of, exploited and whatever else.

Personally, I don’t give a fuck. I am what I am, if anyone wants to exploit me, it’s their loss. Looking for equals is hard, but very rewarding.

Lemme quote a game (lol…):

“What is better? To be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?”

Being evil is not the natural state of existence.

If that were the case, humanity would have never come this far.

Oh right, altruism and being nice-to-each-other is so intrinsic, hence we all get along so greatly and the world is a peaceful place to enjoy. You might be, my friend, but the majority of people obviously only cares for themselves and - to some extent as it benefits them - for others, if capabilities are left. Most even need religion to be told what is good and bad, those are the worst. Homo homini lupus est…

Wish you were right though, but that’d just be optimistic projection.

I think what the other guy is referring to is we wouldn’t have survived without us having some sort of tribiliasm. Which means you have to be somewhat (good) to one another.

True. But we were and are also fine with slaves. The “tribe” in tribalism is a very thin layer and has not much to do with “being good” though. It’s being nice to reap a benefit. If another tribe offers more, it’s go fuck yourself time 😁

I think I agree with your observation. Simple example:

I tried reducing hobbies to image printing in alternative photography: CMYK… simple except that no matter what store you visit everyone already bought the M magenta. Specifically M122 quinacridone magenta because it’s transparent and permanent lightfast.

It doesn’t matter little thing we do, the orange asshole at the wheel is working to fuck it up. Now thanks to inflation I have to think about not retiring and maybe a second job. Just don’t get sick until you bite the dust.

Anyway, I think maybe you should just be as open-minded as possible to understand each misfortune for what it might be so you can adjust the way you are or expect. Like getting ghosted by a friend… maybe you are way tooo much and they can’t stand it. Maybe they changed something like got a girlfriend or boyfriend that doesn’t really like you. Maybe they got a second job?

yeah must be suck when you decided to retire and life decided that you are not allowed to.

i already make sure that i am being as nice and friendly as possible but yet those “friends” still ghosted me

To be kind is to hope for and work toward a better world. When you are kind you do not naturally receive some “reward”, but rather give a “reward” to those you provide kindness to. The catch is that your kindness will affect a great many more than you will ever know or hear about. It is multiplied. You, every single day, benefit from the kindness of others whether you are aware of it or not. Kindness is not transactional. You give comfort and ease to those around you. The closest it gets to a transaction is that you may hope that by being kind you plant a seed in others that will grow into kindness of their own, which may in time find its way back to you.

Metaphorically, imagine a communal food pantry, where the food actually represents some abstract stockpile of kindness and goodwill in the world.

To be neutral is to bring a foodstuff you are less fond of, and take a foodstuff you are more fond of.

To be kind is to bring plentiful foodstuffs for others to enjoy, and take only what you need.

To be unkind is to take when you do not need it.

I know people have already hit you with the “kindness is its own reward” but it truly is. When I consider the profound impact on my own life because of the kindness of others, I am given the drive to try and provide that for others. What a joy it is to know that I may have helped someone get through their day just a little bit easier.

We cannot control the evils of others, but we can control the kindness of ourselves, and kindness can ease the pains caused by the evils of others.

life is really unfair world.

The capitalistic world is.

right now i can relate why some people choose to become evil person, because being good and nice person in this world is just not as rewarding as bad people does.

Most evil people are born bad.

tried to stay positive, then misfortune strikes

What happened? I hope you don’t live in Palestine.

tried making friends, ended up ghosted

What happened?

tried save money, inflation happens

This will keep on happening if you live the US.
Best is to buy durable goods.

tried being nice, taken advantage of

What happened?

tried being honest, get hatred

Some people are mean and you’ll get hatred from no matter what.
Be honest to those you can be honest to.

But again, what happened?

tried religion

Don’t

tried theraphy,

Therapy exists because medicine for your ailment doesn’t yet.

tried sell product online, fees and tax cut, also less buyers.

What happened? I hope you don’t live in Palestine.

i am not from palestine, but lot of bad things happened to me this year, including lost 4 years worth buisiness, third burn degree on both of my hand because of hospital malpractice, diagnosed with anxiety disorder and depression, even a lizard decided to drop on my body when i was going to toilet.

What happened?

i tried to approached some people, be as friendly as possible, then get ignored

This will keep on happening if you live the US.
it also happens in asia too.

What happened?

i done lot of hardwork and being as nice as possible, but certain platform decided to take advantage of me and i am taking loss in the end.

But again, what happened?

one of them is i am being honest that life is not always about getting married, have kids, etc, but lot of people hate and think its coward mindset.

Therapy exists because medicine for your ailment doesn’t yet.

and theraphy itself doesnt too

It’s not less rewarding but I can agree, more exhausting.

Religion doesn’t make sense to me either really, but stepping on other people to gain material wealth would not feel rewarding.

Can you maybe be more specific about how you want to be good in the world and let a little bit of the other stuff slide? You can’t fix everything, and remember YOU are also a person you should be good to. Being selfless is hurting at least one person.

If you need medication to sleep and feel ok, there’s probably something going on with your mental health. Not anything to do with whether you are “good” or “bad” just something to tackle so you can function in your life.

Are evil people negative? Pretty sure they are positive in a toxic sense

Yeah, they’d lipstick that pig for slaughter.

This is life, there are no guarantees, and randomness can create massive problems.

If you always look for a specific outcome (for what you put in as you see as effort), then you will most likely always be dissapointed.

The world sucks, then you die, so you might as well make the best of it while here and help your fellow humans along the way.

exactly this is so true, i really hate how random life is. if only life is fair enough to always reward nice person, then that will be utopia.

Humans are socially engineered. Capitalism was created and designed to capitalize and corner. It rewards greed and selfish people often portraying the negative and evil characteristics. Our economy encourages evil people because they’re successful in capitalism. You won’t be a billionaire by caring about other people. All of them exploit a majority of the working class. The world right now is designed for bad people because economic success encourages negative characteristics. That’s why white collar crimes are a dime a dozen. Basically when you start with a turd and then gold spray it you end with a shiny turd. That’s why you always have feel good stories about some rich millionaire giving away or donating show up in news. Its news worthy to be rich, successful and a good person. Even though its basic human decency.

It is never about good and evil, only about what works and what doesn’t. Contributing towards others wellbeing above your own will inevitably hurt the latter, unless you are so unshakeably well established within yourself that nothing can ever even scratch you. At the same time to even be capable to improve wellbeing of others you need your own wellbeing taken care of

And yes, wellbeing does not mean consuming more and of higher quality than someone else, it means being well

Yeah. I just try to find the balance and let others deal.

Capitalism

Because it’s constructive, simply put an explicit and constant effort. Your work is being cooped by other people, but it’s your work nonetheless. Evolve to find better ways to protecting it if you can - is the general notion. Your mileage may vary.

Being a nice and good person is its own reward. It doesn’t matter if you were nice and got taken advantage of. What matters is that you were nice. It doesn’t matter that you saved money and it was hit by inflation. The point is that you saved money. What results from your actions can never be guaranteed. The point is that you did what you thought was right.