I think you should probably ask a person like that(someone who you can ask)?

Other than that, maybe religion and doubt against what they consider as ‘not-normal’?

They are afraid of liking it.

I think that answer only carries so much weight: racists aren’t afraid of becoming black.

Probably more of a joke responce than anythint else.

Well, I mean. . . from the outside. . . It appears to create a ladder of self-worth, enabling someone to validate themselves above others for appearing not to conform to the group. While also ensuring your own compliance, by allowing the ladder to collapse in under you.

Edit: The question is, what are they complying with?

i doubt you’ll get a meaningful response from those you’re asking. this platform, lemmy, is in particular not going to expose your question to people like you described. ask it on the big platforms, you’ll get a much wider range and within that, an insanely wide range of bs. but as is obvious, it’s cultural and educational

Fr

yes, friend?

OP probably wouldn’t get a meaningful answer in other places either. The kind of guy that reacts to gay men the way described isn’t going to reflect on why they’re scared of homosexuality and come back with anything useful; they’ll just say “I ain’t scared of no bummers!” and then call them a another slur.

fucking weirdass also i am introuble

Older kids taught us to point out people that were different. Often with slurs. Not everyone grew out of it.

This is the wrong question. You don’t know about sociology’s reason and it makes sense you would ask this. I’m not going to explain further than wrong question and figure out sociology’s answer because anything LGBTQ is a rabbit hole.

you don’t have to claim accountability… post what you are saying.

Then you just wasted your time and everyone else’s.

Yeah I wouldn’t expect people to know shit about what they want to talk about anyways if it needs critical thinking skills.

Why is it wrong and what would be the right one?

Its ignorant of sociological principles. What OP sees as “fear” is the complete opposite in sociology and reality. Its similar to how a whole bunch of people in Germany became Nazi supporter. They weren’t born to be Nazis. Same as these people weren’t born to be afraid of homosexuality. Its ignorant and the wrong question to be asking. The right question is what brings this consistent ideology or theme. What makes it popular enough that enough people decide to participate in it that op finds this pattern and asks it online.

Tbh, i don’t think the question was meant to get an academically rigorous answer. It seems more like a complaint (just look at the rest of the post). Maybe that’s why OP said “fear” a bit loosely, or maybe they don’t realize that “phobia” (which is really what this is about—homophobia) can also mean repulsion. Either way, wouldn’t it be better to interpret it in the best light and explain what you were aiming for—the sociological causes?

Not if you’re asking a question two steps away from answering yourself anyways. This is why sociology should be a requirement. If I go down that rabbit hole like I said it would be way too long. If it missed the point of the argument then why even bother giving them any explanation. It’s not a fear of homophobia is why it’s the wrong question.

For some reason i didn’t read this part of your earlier response:

The right question is what brings this consistent ideology or theme. What makes it popular enough that enough people decide to participate in it that op finds this pattern and asks it online

Now i can put the pieces together and have a rough idea where you’re going with this.

Anyway, let me insist that you’re asking something from the OP that it wasn’t trying to give in the first place. Your approach is academic, the OP’s is emotional.

OP is trying to solve a question that is the wrong approach altogether. Academic or emotional if you’re not going the right way it’s a pointless discussion.

I understand you think it’s wrong, but that’s because you’re looking at this through a different lens.

Here’s what i take from it:

I don’t like seeing people behave this way in these circumstances; i really don’t understand it. Lets talk about what you people feel in those same circumstances.

In casual communicative contexts, phrasing something as a question doesn’t necessarily mean it’s seeking an answer or at least not one that solves a problem. So, this can’t be a pointless discussion, because it isn’t a discussion at all, and certainly not an academic one. It’s people sharing experiences, just a conversation. it’s great you want more rigor, but asking for it here as if it were obvious misses the point: this wasn’t a context that demanded rigor from the start.

You don’t get that this is the worst type of approach to this situation. You want to understand through ignorance be my guest. You wont find your answer. These people are the same as the people they think are “afraid” just two ignorant fools.

I’ll do my best. I can vaguely remember some of the words that came out of my mouth when I was around 13-18 years old. Most of which were slurs rather than deep thoughts.

The slurs were more to do with what was typical/acceptable talk at the time (late 90s-early 2000s) in combination with teenage boys love nothing more than being assholes to each other (typically to my straight friends) because they think it’s funny.

Some of my “deeper thoughts”, for as well as a teenager can articulate, were to do with not understanding and frankly not actually trying to understand any other perspective. I believe I was simply trying to boost myself by stepping on others. I don’t think there was ever a point in which I hated gay people, but I do remember saying how I thought it was disgusting (gay sexual acts)and I had opinions on gay couples raising children even though I had no evidence to support those opinions.

I don’t think any of it ever scared me, none of what I said was out of fear. I was never worried about liking it, as some other comments suggested. Instead, It was an easy way to safely feel superior to cope with my lengthy list of insecurities.

As my brain began to mature, my thoughts quickly changed.

So… Immaturity, insecurity, ignorance.

Nowadays… regret. Sorry everyone.

I’m glad you grew out of it. Too many boys never do

You seem to be a similar age to me, so have a similar response to my own.

But to add to your answer; for me in my younger years, it was primarily the fear of being othered by my peers. Being gay was seen as the worst thing a man could be, ergo, being seen as gay by my peers would have been the worst thing. So I’d overcorrect with homophobia.

In our defence (my peers and I, I mean), we were also in the midst of the AIDS crisis, where the news would keep bringing us stories of how many gay men were dying because they were having sex with each other. That’s legitimately scary when you’re young, just beginning to understand what sex is, and that you like the idea of it.

But in the interim I’ve grown up and moved into a mental space where I’m less of a prick.

For the past couple of years I’ve marched in the two pride marches local to me as a fully paid up supported of the LGBTQ+ community, not least because these days I don’t really consider myself to be straight anyway. I’m just a bloke-shaped person who likes to experience sex with other people, regardless of their junk.

I suspect it is somewhat similar of women looking at each other and judging each other about "giving out free milk. Biggest slut shamers are women, tho men are right after them lol.

So from a purely guessing point of view:

Place in society, and perceived safety of norm enforcement and the fact, that historically being gay was (almost/mostly) a death sentence.

Raising yourself up by hating someone else “at least I am not XYZ” or “it would suck to be XYZ I’m so much better” is an easy copium.

And distraction also: if you hate someone else, you won’t have time to hate yourself.

Well, you’re gonna have trouble finding many men here that are genuinely “afraid” if homosexuality. Those that exist are unlikely to respond because it’s painting a giant target on themselves.

So, you’ll likely have to settle for second and third hand answers.

With that caveat in mind, I grew up in the south where the kind of homophobia that isn’t necessarily bigotry (though it usually is) sometimes gets discussed if you approach people right.

The general answers I ever got amounted to social approbation. They’re not so much scared of gay people, or gay acts, and almost universally not of “turning gay”. It’s that they have this idea that behind anything other than anti gay gets them tarred and feathered with the same brush.

Yeah, the other reasons exist, but it really does come down to being scared of sharing the same fate as gay people if they don’t object enough. And it is an actual fear, rather than hatred, it just shares the same external trappings. And, for most of the people that have that fear, they would rather share the label of bigot than the label of gay.

But make no mistake, it isn’t common. The kind of yelling-at-the-screen shit is just as performative, but it’s the flip side of the fear. Those assholes believe that they seem more manly by doing so. It’s territorial pissing and chest thumping.

It’s one of the reasons I dislike phobia being the suffix for forms of bigotry. While phobos, and thus phobia has relation to rejection of things, it’s a misnomer to say that most bigots are really acting out of fear. Which is dangerous, possibly even more dangerous than regular hate. But also not as dangerous as blind hatred paired with dehumanization of a target. The mental processes involved in bigotry are far more insidious than simple ignorance and fear of the unfamiliar.

Which is tangential, but I think worth examining.

I actually think it’s hyper-competitive bullshit.

For simple, stupid men especially, they see everything as a status contest, and for that worldview to work there must be clear ways to measure who is doing better than someone else, so they know where to rank with others.

But that system breaks down if you don’t value the same things they do the same WAY they do. This is also why these same people have the same visceral aversion to things like small cars, simple foods, etc, etc. “I can’t make you feel like I’m better than you with my truck if you don’t want a truck. There’s something wrong with you.”

This also explains why they look up to and lick the boots of people higher on the social ladder by their strict measure of what that means. It also explains why they view partners as prizes and not people.

And anyone who steps outside their ranking system is an anomaly that might, God forbid, make them have to reexamine some aspect of their value system, and that won’t fly.

For whatever the opinion of one random on the internet counts for, I think this nailed it.

No one is afraid of the gays. (Well, no one who isn’t mentally ill.) They are afraid of some locus of power, which, despite what some pundits claim about the force of the ‘woke mob,’ gay people do not have significant power. Some person or group of people have power in their life, and those boys are willing to sacrifice other peoples’ happiness, safety, and sometimes even lives, so they can virtue signal to the powers that be. "See? I’m attacking the scapegoat too, so I must be a good guy. I’m certainly not hiding a thousand secret sins that might make me an outcast. How could I be? That’d be hypocritical because then I’d be evil like him. So I’m attacking him. See? This proves I’m good.’

I’ve heard the argument before that it’s tied up in misogyny, homophobic men are, consciously or otherwise, thinking basically “I’m afraid gay men will treat me the way I treat women”

Hence all the anti-gay jokes like “backs against the wall lads” (note how the straight men are often imagining themselves as the bottom) - implication being, “I don’t respect consent therefore what if the gay man who’s more of a threat to me physically doesn’t either”

No idea how accurate this is but it certainly rings true for some behaviours

Drop soap in the shower is another one.

I don’t believe that they are scared but jealous.

Probably got raised in a way that they couldn’t express themselves so the first thing is to put others down who have the strength to express themselves.

Mean fear being treated they way they treat women

Straight men who fear homosexuality are afraid of discovering that they secretly like the cock.

Hetero cis male here. I’ve always personally felt that the stereotypical male macho reaction to homosexuality is pretty odd. But I have a lot of gay people in my friends and family, and was around homosexuality a little more than some people were growing up.

If I had to infuse anything into the mind of someone scared or worried about gay people, it would just be that outside of that one detail, and their own small subculture they’ve embraced, they’re just people, the same as anyone else.

To me it feels similar to fear-driven bigotry based on racism. Outside of a little melanin (or lack thereof) and a slightly different subculture, other “races” are people, just the same as you. But rather than get to know other, some folks find it easier to be scared and ignorant and shield themselves behind hate.

Exactly this, we all eat and poop and sleep and seek comfort and acceptance. People are the same at a basic level.

Seems reasonable to me that it’s a network effect. Hating gay people is a thing their community does, so they do it to fit in with the community, at first, and then it becomes part of who they are after they’ve done it for a while. Their “culture” in a sense. But if their community sees them as gay, or gay enough, they’ll be targeted by their own discrimination and lose their community and be outside the pack, which is what they actually fear. And if one of their friends starts getting too close to gay, they may have to hate them and cut them loose just to make sure the target doesn’t spread by association and cause people to start hating both of them.

As acceptance of gay stuff increases, they see their community shrinking. Their “culture” has fewer and fewer people, which means their pack is getting smaller, and all they want with all their hearts is to be firmly in the biggest safest strongest group. So their group gets smaller, but can they change? Can they just give up hating at this age? Can they honestly see themselves forming community with those people? They still have some people in their community, the ones closest to them, that they’d still have to give up if they changed. Maybe their uncle and brother and mom, people important to them, and so as uncomfortable it is to be on a shrinking island, they’d rather that than to be alone with no one they knew. So they keep fighting, but with a new discomfort, the knowledge that they’re fighting for a losing side.

This makes them all the more dangerous, as they’re more willing to do anything to overcome their worsening odds…

I’m scared of appearing to be gay, because i went to school in the 90s. Being gay was the worst thing you could possibly be. If there was any evidence that could potentially point towards you being gay (wearing anything remotely pink. Accidentally listening to a girl band. Getting an ear pierced was trendy but one of the ears meant you’re gay. The pitfalls are endless.)

I want to clarify that I enjoy seeing gay people. It feels like a little victory for mankind. This is a very learned fear. If you’ve never had your ass kicked my multiple people, all of whom could beat you 1v1 anyway, its hard to explain, it gets deeply instilled in you. I know I shouldn’t touch fire. I know I shouldn’t fall from a height. I know I shouldn’t be seen to be possibly gay.

“Haha look at his purple shirt! GAYYY!!!”

Common quote from a guy I used to know

Themselves.

Nobody is completely heterosexual. They see homosexuality as a weakness because they’ve been taught that it is. So when they feel it, they lash out.

It’s always personal insecurity. Every time. Weak people attack things that are outside their comfort zone, and twice as hard when they see themselves in those uncomfortable things.

This is the real answer

I don’t know tbh I feel pretty heterosexual

And you felt the need to comment because?

Probably because you’re trying to claim their identity doesn’t exist?

I suggest reading your own words again, they’re right here

Sure.

On a second reading, my comment should be completely irrelevant to you if you’re comfortable with who you are.

What do you need to defend?

What… ok… whatever this is, not going to be a part of it. Byby

Attaboy.

“The problem men see with lesbians, is that they do not want to have sex them. But gay men do.”

This phrase is from a book of the early 2000’s, about language, jargon and, in one chapter, prejudice and specifically prejudice on sexuality.

It’s the most destilled explanation I ever found.

I sincerely don’t care about what others want for their life, as long as they are happy and not hurting anyone.

Like someone already said in here,
I would say that the type of people that are “terrified” are the type that are “hyper-competitive”.
They’re extremely status minded and constantly want to tear people down to pull themselves up.
It’s also why they’re disgusted with non-manliness, which is not the same as gay in my opinion.
You can have a manly man who is gay and a girly man who is heterosexual.
Even making fun of acting tough behavior gets them into disgust.
You can’t have fun with these people.

I do have to say, before I was in a relationship,
I would get annoyed if mistaken for gay and thus prefer to avoid any confusion.
I consider the dating market to be skewed in favor of women simply by the numbers
and anything to further pull down those chances is the last thing I need.

I was sequestered indoors my entire life. My parents lived in the middle of nowhere, and wouldn’t help me get away from home – tried to get my license several times. I wasn’t allowed to go to other people’s houses. People weren’t allowed to come over – they could be bad influences. My first snowman was at 28 years old. I tried to go to college and they disconnected the Internet mid-semester, because it was Satanic.

School was a battleground of guys terrified to be anywhere near me.

Every time I try and find male friends, it always ends in me not being manly enough. And it’s rattled me to my core. I literally can’t be around men anymore, despite doing numerous home and auto repairs growing up. Wiring shit together, etc. It always ends the same. I’ve always wanted guy friends. I just can’t try anymore.

Which is the reason for the question. Why are grown-ass men afraid of people not being manly enough?

I’m sorry you’ve been treated this way. There’s nothing wrong with you. I think if a man is scared of gay people it’s because of their own insecurities.

This seems to be less about manliness and more about, you understand feelings and emotions. They’ve been told to stuff that shit down and don’t express it. Ever. They may be more afraid of feelings and emotion than anything.

In my understanding, and being myself among the “not manly enough”, the one like us grow mostly in two kinds: those who mask masculinity well enough, and those who don’t.

Yet all those who mask it are affraid of us because they could fail their masking around us. And they hate us because we found a way to make it without spending a lot of energy in masking. It is not something they know nor do willingly.

I have tried to mask, instinctively, and because society was waiting it from me. You probably tried too. It is far from easy and a constant pointless effort. It was rejecting our real self while seeking to make ourself accepted… And I think putting it like this makes obvious that those who success at masking need to reject us to keep up their mask: if they begin to accept us, it would be too difficult for them to reject their real selves hard enough.

Also, you may recognize genuinely masculine men at the fact they aren’t scared by feminine men nor gay men around them.

That they would like it and become gay.

That they would get dehumanized and treated the way they/other men treat gays and women.

I don’t know, the dicks i guess?

I know this is a semi serious question. But my first thought was “the penis”.

Eek!

This made me chuckle in real life. Well done.

Most people like vaginas. But everybody likes the penis.

The knowledge that they have thought about sucking dick many times in their life.

Wouldn’t this apply to straight women as well?

No, because it doesn’t scare straight women

I meant: heterosexual men who are scared of gays, because they have thought about sucking dick, must also be scared of straight women (at least of those who actually like sucking dick), by that logic.

Think about the details for a second before responding.

Thinking about giving blowjobs isn’t something that scares straight women because that is what they are “supposed to do “. Is scares” straight" men because it “isn’t what they are supposed to do”

I just realized, we had a misunderstanding here.

You were talking about the heterosexual men, who are scared, having thought about sucking dick many times. Thus, they are scared because of their own thoughts.

I thought you meant the gay men had thought about sucking dick many times, and that fact scares the heterosexual men.
And I meant that heterosexual women would have thought about sucking dick as well, thus the heterosexual men must be scared of these women, too.

I thought it through, but I misunderstood your comment.

No worries, are you on the spectrum as well? I realised after i submitted the comment that I might have come off like an asshole, I hope you didn’t take that to heart.

Well, I read your first comment as a sincere answer to the OP question, which was somehow directed at people who are actually homophobic, so I had you registered as an asshole anyways. 😉 Should’ve looked at your user’s instance, to see that that is unlikely, but my client doesn’t show that by default and I don’t do background checks before posting one-liner remarks.

Your first sentence came off a bit smug, especially since you couldve read my clarification on another comment I received on that. But it made me wonder, why I’m getting such weird reactions and in light of the misunderstanding it was deserved a bit. So no hard feelings. Good on you for noticing it, and I very much appreciate the apology.

I’m indeed on some kind of spectrum, depends which one you’re talking about, though.

Read “whipping girl” by Julia Serano, she goes into the idea of social stigma driving bigotry

Usually just insecure people who hang around with other insecure people who always need to prove their toxic masculinity to each other. Then others get roped in because you get excluded from the group if you don’t get involved. It’s very tribal and stupid and fortunately it’s getting less and less common amongst younger men.

And obviously religion plays a big part because being gay is sinful in many religions.I suspect a lot of it got worse around the time Christian values became the “default” cultural representation for pop culture in the west.

I felt a bit of this as a child, it’s just social pressure and anxiety about being outcast. I’d imagine that often being more outspoken about it is from insecurity because someone might actually be gay (or bi) and either not want to admit it to themselves or at least not want anyone to find out.

In many cases it’s also probably some deep hatred of anything that goes against what they consider “right”, but that too ultimately mostly stems from social pressure about honosexuality being seen as “wrong”

I’m pulling this out of my ass, no pun intended, but I’ve always imagined it as homephobes distancing themselves from anything gay, especially being gay and liking gay stuff.

Like as in they would never go to a gay bar with their gay friend even though they platonically like the friend, enjoying dancing and so on. If gay stuff is on TV they have to affirm the mantra “I’m not gay so I don’t like stuff” so they use slurs to reaffirm their stance.

There’s also the thing where people view manly and gay as opposite. They identify as manly so they have to not like gay stuff.

Bottom line, I think they’re insecure about their masculinity, afraid of actually becoming gay or both.

I’m not homophobic anymore, but my father still is & I still remember my backward thinking from my teenage years.

1. Anal sex is something I found disgusting. I still have less than 0 interest in it, but I don’t give a flying f. about others doing it, apparently hetero anal it’s extraordinarily popular in my country, to the point that people wouldn’t believe it.

2. The smell, as a teenage boy I found the odor of other teenage boys disgusting. Thinking about someone smelling like that touching me or me touching them made me shiver. Now as an adult maybe my nose is worse, or adults just smell better, but I don’t get disgusted by such thoughts anymore.

3. The silliest point of them all is that I was afraid of a gay guy hitting on me or even courting me. (I know now it’s ridiculous, but in my defense kids are stupid)

4. The most important point of them all is learned behavior, just hate who or what your friends and family hate, the be social within your tribe.

I’ve watched grown-ass men bark “f@gg0+,

Oh yeah, I’ve gotten that a lot myself. (well in my early twenties at least) Mostly as a criticism to my fondness of certain genres of music & romantic movies. The real wakeup call had been actually interacting with openly gay people on a daily basis for a while.

I’m not a homophobe, you can do whatever the hell you want with other consulting adults as far as I’m concerned, but the thought of two men boning is still weird af to me. Like repulsive weird. But I’ve heard a similar thing about hetero intercourse and hetero PDA from a lesbian, so… I don’t think it’s abnormal to feel this way?

Its weird and nasty to think about, until you think of it like a typical relationship. They have to have chemistry, they have to mesh well, and plus it feels gross to imagine 2 people you personally find unattractive banging.

A lot of young gay men that initially think they were straight was because they imagined 2 old burly hairy dudes going at it, and got grossed out by it.

Once you think of it as guys you’re age, similar situations, as the same “type” as women you like is usually when it starts to click for people who previously wouldn’t describe themselves as gay or bi.

First off pink pony club fucking rules so those people are idiots. And Im a prog rocker who doesnt listen to pop.

Second, yeah I know this one guy who loves to say f@gg0t all the time and I’m like why? Its not edgy or funny dude. He’s fine with gay people but hates trans people and liberals so no fuckin clue what’s up with him.

A lot of it is just fear, they dont understand it so they get angry. And the right wingers prey on these people because all they have for a platform is fear of the Other. Thats it.