Are all the American newsreaders (any of those talking about the UK anyway) calling Andy Burnham 'Burn Ham?' Like they say 'Birming Ham?'
Also, Fulham.
Please tell me you don't say 'Full-Ham?'
😂
Replying to @menelion@dragonscave.space
@menelion Something like that, yeah. If you listen to how UK news presenters say it, you'll get the vibe.
Replying to @menelion@dragonscave.space
@menelion I think it's partly a matter of dialectal variation, and partly that some places that have their names spelled the same aren't pronounced the same in actuality. To the former, maneuver vs manoeuvre is absolutely not due to a lack of education, and neither is an identical pronunciation of Tudor, tutor and tooter. How about pour vs paw, core vs caw? Why do the British say garage in such a "bastardized" way if it clearly comes from French, and Americans can do it much more correctly? After all, the -um pronunciation is just a lazy articulation of the full "-ham" ending, so even if it is the standard one in the UK, it's actually due to languages being naturally lazy and not due to some sort of better education. To the latter, I've had this conversation with Americans that will affirm that Birmingham in Alabama is pronounced with fully-articulated -ham, but might refer to Birmingham in the UK with the -um pronunciation. Same for Norwich in Connecticut, which is pronounced nor-witch. I think it's valid to want people to pronounce Birmingham in the UK with the -um ending, just as long as you're equally observant that Birmingham in Alabama is pronounced with final -ham and call it that. If you grew up in the US hearing Birming-ham and suddenly learn of a place in the UK spelled that way, you'd probably call it that. If you grew up in the UK hearing Birming-um you'd probably call the city in Alabama the same thing, and both would be equally """wrong""". @FreakyFwoof
Replying to @menelion@dragonscave.space
@menelion For sure, hence what I said about it being totally valid to want people to pronounce things your way as long as you reciprocate. I used to think both Norwiches (Norwichs?) were pronounced the same until I was corrected, and now I try to remember which is which. Not that I ever have to talk about Norwich CT, no offense hahaha. But yeah, in the case of a random person they simply might not know or even consider it a possibility, and in the case of a news anchor who knows if they might even have been asked to pronounce it a certain way. @FreakyFwoof
Replying to @menelion@dragonscave.space
@menelion I know, I find it kind of silly in the case of news. Especially because American English does have the sounds to make that happen. It would be a slightly different story if it were our prime minister, I'm pretty sure they'd say "Pay-droe San-chezz" in the UK, the US and every other anglophone country. @FreakyFwoof
Replying to @x0@dragonscave.space
@Nicop @FreakyFwoof @guilevi @menelion I'm absolute shit at Vietnamese, though, and not much better at Mandarin. Or Arabic. So while someone whose name is Nguyen being pronounced identical to "win" sort of ticks a part of me off I doubt I could do much better without embarrassing myself in front of the person whose name that is. And some people especially from those regions actually prefer anglicized names and feel patronized if you try and call them by their native name, or it looks awkward for you to be the only one using it in the room.
Replying to @FreakyFwoof@universeodon.com
@FreakyFwoof @guilevi @menelion This, exactly! I have a story about this too. A foreign exchange student from Pakistan came to my high school in my final year, and his name was Talha. When pronouncing peoples names, I try for not just correct anglophone but if I can manage it, correct local as well. So I had a conversation where he walked me through the pronunciation of his name, which has unasporated t, the first a is somewhat closer to an ehh sound and stress goes there, and the last a is a schwa. Course I didn't know to call it schwa at the time but it's much easier to learn how to pronounce someone's name when having a spoken conversation with them. Throughout the year, anytime I'd call him by name or address him by name in a conversation, I said it that way, the way he taught me. Meanwhile most of my classmates said something like "tall ha" in sometimes the most exadurated manner, with some 'all' shit straight out of the southern US. Near the end of the year, on my birthday, he gave me a garment that people in Pakistan wear which is somewhat like a scarf, I forget its name, as a gift of appreciation for being the one person who really cared about pronouncing his name. That's the first and only time I've gotten *that much* appreciation for doing that.
Replying to @x0@dragonscave.space
@x0 @FreakyFwoof @guilevi @menelion I'm the same way as you. It was quite a shock to my friend Bhavya when I said her name with an aspirated B
Replying to @Nicop@tweesecake.social
@Nicop @FreakyFwoof @guilevi @menelion Granted, as far as Pedro Sanchez, I'm not exactly sure which way I'd go. I don't think I'd be as over the top with "pay dro" as most people around me but I might still say sanchez with /æ/. Suppose it would actually depend on the person. For someone who lives in Spain and speaks Spanish, I probably would say it fully like Spanish. For an English-speaking person living in my area with the same name, I'd probably go with the more anglophone pronunciation.