Trump’s government siding with OpenAI is peak MAGA economics: copyright is sacred until Silicon Valley needs millions of other people’s books, articles and art for free. Then suddenly property rights become an annoying obstacle to »winning the AI race.« Apparently America First now means AI companies first, creators somewhere near last.

Property rights are sacred until they need land to build a data center, then is eminent domain on the name of “public good”

They’re all communists.

Only for corporations and the wealthy not for us plebs.

No. That behavior is distinctively Capitalist. Sacred ruled always bent to convenience.

Absolutely. Unlike these ignorant people, I know what communism is.

‘Maga economics’ is just ordinary US Capitalist/Oligarch economics with panicking Oligarchs ! Did you really think that ‘your’ side of the super right-wing US uni-party would not shit on ANY principles as they see fit ?? Come on man It’s a big club… and you ain’t in it !

Both sides are managed. It’s called ‘controlled opposition’. None of your ‘lefty’ values are officially cared about or listened too and you never had ‘Democracy’ in the US, so the Epsteins were always in control !! All of your opinions are nothing but thin air to your Oligarchy, but… somehow ‘Maga’ are bad, and you are good - without ANY of you having ANY democratic power at all !! Without ANY of you having good information, without ANY of you doing dilligent critical evaluations of your system. How incredibly captured are you people ? Do anyone of you even understand how US is run, or what actually happens in the world ?!?

ANY agreement with ANY of your oligarch politicians/Epstein shtters are direct support for their insane behavior at home, and in their insane endless wars against the rest of the world, and guess what - both sides of the uniparty have had the same foreign policy - for 75 years !!! What you see now is nothing but Oligarch panic, and have nothing to do with any opinions of the Merican people - you are NOT in control, and you are NOT in the club !!

Listen to George Carlin for f’s sake ! You are ALL - Maga’s and Dems alike - ‘controlled opposition’, 2 groups of manipulated, mentally raped, mind-colonised right-wingers that seem to believe whatever you are told by the most insane pschopathic elite, by the most insane media outlets that the Oligarchs actually OWN, and hence you live your entire life in the most ridiculous mis-information-sphere in the known world…

You are ALL being played by the Epsteins pschos from the day you were born until now ! Wake up, Stop fighting each other on their command, Stop listening to their media, Stop hating who you are told to hate, Stop agreeing with their violent aggressions around the world - just S T O P ! !

You’re not wrong but you’re wasting your breath. Every generation has a small group that figures this out and no matter how much they change their own lives, no matter how they try to get the word out, or get involved in activism, or literally anything at all, the masses will not budge. The people are incapable of saving themselves or making substantial changes in their lives without external pressures on them. People you know and like and share your opinion will nod and agree and pontificate from the comfort of their armchairs, but as long as they have even a sliver of comfort and convenience and entertainment they will not change anything about their lives at all. But they sure will get online and bitch all day. The best you can do is either move out of the country or gather like minded friends and family and live on a commune.

Alrighty then, enjoy the end of creative people creating things, let’s all find out together how this ends 😐

And then cries when other countries do it to them

From me just looking at it, everything they’re trying to do to force US AI supremacy seems to just generate and cause even more pushback. Ban cards to China? China’s ramping up GPU supplying and separating from US dominated supply chains. Ban model exports? They’ll make cheaper and easier models. Idk, whenever you force the market it usually backfires in ways you can’t expect.

The thing is, they’re trying to force the market by actual force rather than slow and methodical coercion. US hegemony is over, because the buffoon in chief, who is terrible at domestic business, is also bad at foreign business. Shocking, I know.

The problem with tariffs is once you use enough on them, you’re effectively imposing economic sanctions or a blockade on your own country.

US hegemony is over

That happened MANY years ago, and US elites came up with a plan to stop China by going through a shitload of wars and psy-op regime-changes - so called ‘Color-revolutions’ created by the CIA etc. All general moves have been outlined in think tank reports. What has happened that are different from normal, is that China suddenly accelerated and ran away from them, and in their panic they have had to trigger all their nasty attacks against all nations that in any way support China. Biden were the same nasty cnt as Trump, he just had only ONE small job for the oligarchs - Ukraine, whereas Trump has gotten them all, S. America, middelEast Iran, and oc the bad bad China. US are trying to regime-changing nations as we speak - exactly the same as under Biden, just much much faster…

All of this is easy to figure out, but the western population was driven into a lynch-mob, an echo-chamber in the same way other nations were regime-changed. So, everyone is lied to, angry af, and as planned, doesn’t listen to counter arguments. ‘Putin-lover’, ‘Commie’ and other childish reactions are the norm, instead of actually investigating the ridiculous Claims from your elite.

Yes, Trump is a buffoon, but honestly, can any of you actually name a single US oligarch politician that are NOT a buffoon ? Come on man, move on from this manufactured infighting and move away from US media. You are being manipulated to hate each other instead of the rich pscho cnts that actually RUN your country, and are actually harming millions of people around the world in a sick pursuit of more power !!

That happened MANY years ago, and US elites came up with a plan to stop China by going through a shitload of wars and psy-op regime-changes - so called ‘Color-revolutions’ created by the CIA etc.

I’m just curious - you mean something like “The Grand Chessboard - American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives” (1997)? I haven’t read that yet.

But afaik they just fucking slept on China and that few of the regime change done in the last few 3 decades were aimed at it. Like they helped it get into the WTO and somehow they thought it would just become another neoliberal country that can be bought and controlled.

I clearly see how the “unipolar moment” led to regime change aimed at the middle east and eastward EU and nato expansion of their vassal states, but I don’t see how that affects China.

In any case yeah, China ran away and it’s pretty much over for US global supremacy, especially as they double down on not investing into their people: “In total, China now leads in 66 of the 74 technologies tracked, with the United States leading in the remaining eight” …org.au/aspis-critical-technology-tracker-2025-up…

Like you can force the market with good industrial policy of subsidies and oversight pretty effectively. See East Asia in general. Problem comes when those you gave power with those actions start directing your government to do stupid things for their benefit and they capture the very oversight that made it work in the first place.

It’s only a problem if you want to set up a good policy once and never touch it again.

Life doesn’t work like that. “The problem with cleaning my room is that it gets dirty again.” Well, duh.

Politics is a never ending process of vigilance and fighting. A policy should not be judged as “bad” simply because it requires vigilance and teeth at all times. Literally all good policies require now and will continue to require participation.

Project Hail Mary but not for the good of all …

Project Bloody Mary

Did kegsbreath leak his codename for the next military conflict??

lol

We’re in danger

This is the correct decision, just for the wrong reasons.

“Trump‘s cronies suck off the billionaires yet again, to the shock of nobody”

That is awesome, anyone can train an AI model and use copyrighted materials. So this is the end of IP laws?

Copyright is conveniently only flexible for multibillion dollar AI firms.

Of course… But it might be fun to test the theory.

Next time they send a cease and desist letter to some website hosting copyrighted content the website should just say they’re using the content to train AI models.

Good effort. You have been deemed a threat to ‘National Security’! Only the biggest ai firms get to do that.

If anyone ever does try to argue this in court, they’ll just change the justification to “national security.”

We need the most powerful AI we can make because our rival nations are building their most powerful AIs. Our rivals are using their AI to control drone swarms, perform automated intelligence-gathering, do mass automated hacking, and perform influence operations. Wars are quickly devolving into battles of drone swarms vs drone swarms, and the limit is on the people needed to control the. Our rivals are revolutionizing their supply chains with AI. They may even be performing vast automated influence operations designed to target individual citizens. In the near future, if you’re an American citizen, the Chinese government will know who you are personally, have a file on you, and will be using AI to try and psychologically manipulate you. We need to be able to fight this! We simply have no choice but to keep up. National security demands it. Companies participating in national security-crucial AI development will be exempt from copyright laws.

I’m no lawyer, but a law to allow this almost certainly already exists. US law is full of national security exemptions. For example, I’m pretty sure in wartime IP laws can be waived. If you’ve invented some amazing new technology with military applications? If the government comes knocking and you just refuse to sell to them or demand a completely impossible price, there has to be a mechanism in IP law for those rights to simply be waived, or the rights taken by a form of eminent domain. There’s probably some provision of copyright law that would allow a president to void certain copyrights in a national security emergency.

Flexible? That’s a really wrong way to spell “inexistent” …

“I was working on a MR. For America.”

You and I are unfortunately in the class of people that the law binds but does not protect

No, just another example that laws are for peyon proletarian poorfags. To the actual citizenry (large corporations) they are more of a suggestion or a guideline. US federal government just works to shaft the media and copyright holder megacorps in favour of the Ai megacorps, because rn the needs of AI megacorps are seens as more critical to the wider future prospects megacorp community of the US which the American government represents.

Training a model with copyright material = fine

Creating copyright material and distributing it = not okay

I can infringe copyrights with Photoshop, or just copy pasting the image itself.

We don’t need to knee cap tools and force everything behind subscription services with censorship just to satisfy the copyright industries craving for blood.

Except you can’t train an AI model from another AI model. Well, not from an American AI model, anyways. I’m sure others are fair game.

I’m starting a religion, reality is a simulation and we are all AI, therefore IP rights don’t apply to anyone who holds that religious belief?

The main challenge I see is that Aaron Schwartz and countless others have been prosecuted for access to information but AI companies have been rewarded. There is precedence that access like this is not legal. Had they gone through a library system or used a mechanic like that it may have worked but from what I understand, they used torrents and other mechanics to access the data. So you have companies that go after individual infringement but pursue their own mass infringement. Whether AI generated materials is infringement is above my pay grade but their consumption of the materials seems pretty straight forward as infringement.

But paying and asking for permission first would have been costly at the start and slow. They made a decision, maybe at the beginning, maybe as they realized ethical would mean lost time and placement in the race, and they said screw it, let's go. They also sidelined any AI safety research they were doing (some were making an effort on a difficult problem, but again, $$$ wins).

The NY Times and Pearson, two of the most valuable US publishers, each have market caps of about $10 billion.

Let’s say Pearson went after OpenAI. They devote an unlimited legal budget to the fight. OpenAI is hoping to IPO as a trillion dollar company. If Pearson went after OpenAI, rather than fight them in court, a deal could be reached first. If that didn’t work, if a deal couldn’t be reached, OpenAI could bypass the problem completely:

1. Spend $5 billion to buy a controlling share of Pearson.
2. Fire the entire leadership team and install OpenAI minions in their place.
3. Once they control Pearson, sign a long-term licensing deal with OpenAI with very generous licensing terms and huge early cancellation fees.
4. Sell the shares back on the market at a (likely slightly reduced) value.

OpenAI would likely have to spend some money on net. The value of Pearson stock would likely be a bit lower after effectively giving away the rights to their works as training data. If signing a durable rights contract the new owners can’t escape isn’t practical, buying the company and simply holding it indefinitely would also be an option.

Schwartz was saving and distributing copies against the terms of the agreement by which he was able to access journals. What happened to him was heinous but it was pretty dissimilar to how models train on data. And the tormented material was Anthropic, which resulted in the largest copyright settlement in history. Because it was piracy. They briefly tried an argument that their intended use made it fair use, but…that’s never how literally any of that worked.

Rare US gov W.

Accelerate

Between that bullshit argument and “to protect the children” they are getting away with incredible, fuck, with everything.

THIS JUST IN!:
Anna’s Archive to be renamed AI Training Repository of America.

The lawsuits will drop, right?

All I’m hearing is piracy is legal now 🏴‍☠️

this is why musk got all the CSAM to train grok on, they needed to win that war!

Then I’ll continue to pirate everything

• train your local AI models

this is worse than you can imagine. Started college again. Syllabus says, you can’t use AI. Okay, login to the school website; starts with microslops email login to straight to chat gpt. Okay, need to search for something on the school website, here’s the schools AI search. Okay, answer a topic but we will check and grade it with various AI platforms. Okay, write things in your own words and then I get a 0/100 for doing so. I answered it correctly, exponentially better than the outdated class. So yeah, they can get bent. The best part was that the other students that used LLMs to regurgitate my answer differently. Maybe one less person working in cybersecurity is overall better and I’ll just go back to fixing stuff and watch it all get cooked.

He still can’t bring me a beer.

Amen brother.

Remember how china said that a few months ago and the US was all like “communism is stealing our data”

If you have copyright juggernauts gatekeeping the data through legislation, then you can’t have open-source models.

I’m surprised how many want to shoot consumers in the face just to protect mafia like companies like Universal Studios and YouTube.

So literally the Chinese approach to copyright and IP law.

I mean, based -

But I don’t want the elimination of IP rights without a guaranteed income for artists.

It’s not possible to eliminate IP rights under capitalism. Press the Socialism button!

It’s not possible to eliminate IP rights under capitalism.

It is. Independent artists already gain basically nothing from IP law, because they can't afford to defend their claims in court. The fact that their art (usually, before AI) isn't stolen is a testament to the fact that there's just not much money in doing so, while the fact that their art got stolen once AI hit the scene shows that the law doesn't actually stop the rich from doing this stuff. Press the socialism button anyway, but in any case it's mostly corporations who benefit from IP law.

Would you say starving artists were fine with you before AI?

A follow up question, please:

Q: So, what is illegal for an AI firm to do?

It depends, how big is the suitcase with the bribe?

It has at least 10 pardons worth of cash and untraceable gems!

Nothing if it is in the interest of national security.

my national security or trumps national security?

You know.

Being “woke”.

And now complain again that the Chinese are stealing from you.

I think they have every right to game the bubble because we would be doing the exact same if the situation were reversed. Bummer it’s all going to pop and we will all be using locals soon. They WILL keep building data centers though as long as they get away with it because these boomers and rich idiots want every ounce of our personal info.

they already have all of our personal info. now they even wants our thoughts, preferences and ideas.

I‘m usually one of the first to point out Chinese success is largely based on theft and their business model isn‘t compatible with western capitalism or democracy as a whole.

But yeah the USA lost me a long time ago here. Just insane hypocrisy that even makes Chinese wolf warrior ‚diplomacy‘ look modest.

Rare AI bro W. Fuck copyright.

gonna start my own darknet with a 56k bandwidth limit.

shit was simpler 30 years ago because nothing advanced enough could use such a slow connection.

Let’s get the good stuff down from the loft… the loft ladder creaks

what you described is similar to Gemini protocol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_(protocol)

But you don’t get to enjoy copyrighted materiel yourself

“Rent it again if you love it so much.”

Can you reasonably train a local model? Inference is one thing and can be run on a decent gaming graphics card but training requires a lot more compute.

Depends on the size of the training data, how big the resulting model is, and how fast you want it to finish.

You can absolutely train a nontrivial task model on a gaming gpu (image classifier, sound classifier, text model with a very structured input and output, etc). You can also post-train addon layers on top of existing open-weight models (LORA).

Can you train it better than anything already available on model zoos for free though? If not then beside learning I dont see the point.

Whatever, fuck AI slop.

Where’s all the people shouting how awesome capitalism is, private ownership, the communists will come steal everything from you.

Here come capitalists to steal everything you own so they can make more money. Copyright, shmopyright. They’ve also got eminent domain on their side to build walls and data centers

It’s mostly a nothing-burger right now:

This new Trump administration brief is not a ruling, as the case is being tried in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, and the authors of the brief do not have jurisdiction.

The U.S. copyright office somewhat contradicts the brief:

The training process [also] implicates the right of reproduction.

– www.copyright.gov/ai/ Part 3, III, B.

Tho, the same documents do mention that “fair use” defenses can apply, but as always they depend on a lot of factors specific to individual acts of possible infringement.

So hear me out.

From a purely strategic standpoint, the ultimate goal is artificial general intelligence. Eventually, humanity is going to get there. The question is who gets there first, and what they do with it.

The country that achieves genuinely transformative AGI first could potentially gain an enormous strategic advantage. And if AGI is capable of significantly accelerating AI research itself, that advantage could compound very quickly: AGI helps develop better AI, which accelerates scientific and technological development, which produces even more capable AI.

Whoever gets there second may not necessarily be permanently incapable of catching up, but they could find themselves facing a massive technological and economic gap that becomes increasingly difficult to close.

And here’s where I think things get uncomfortable.

The countries competing to develop this technology are not necessarily going to have the same restrictions. Some countries may be considerably less concerned about copyright, training data, ethical restrictions, censorship, or what subjects an AI is permitted to discuss.

I’m not saying those concerns aren’t legitimate. They absolutely are. But from a purely geopolitical standpoint, there is a potential danger in one country imposing significant self-restraints while its competitors don’t.

Because if AGI really does become as transformative as many people believe it could be, this isn’t just another technology race. It could become a race over scientific advancement, industrial capacity, military technology, economic productivity, and potentially the ability to develop even more advanced AI.

And, honestly, I would rather the United States and other democratic countries reach that point first than China, North Korea, or another highly authoritarian state.

That doesn’t mean I think democratic countries are incapable of abusing powerful technology. Of course they are. The point is that who controls a technology this powerful matters enormously.

So when people talk about AI development purely in terms of corporate profits or whether AI companies should be allowed to train on particular datasets, I think they’re sometimes missing the much larger geopolitical picture.

We’re potentially talking about a technology that could fundamentally alter the balance of power between nations.

That’s a very different conversation.

Disclaimer: I’m not necessarily advocating for AI or LLMs here. I’m simply trying to look at the situation from a purely strategic/geopolitical perspective and consider how governments and other actors might view the race toward AGI.

Well said.

explain why an AGI would propel intellectual and economic growth past its creator’s peers.

we already feed all of human knowledge into these dumbass chatbots and don’t get anything out of it other than super-autist pattern recognition.

“but if it could think, it would immediate solve all the problems plaguing humanity” – says the dumbass AI bro.

You know, it’s stuff like this that continues to irritate me to absolutely no end.

These dumbass chatbots you are referring to have already significantly changed the industry, for better or worse. The change has occurred. There are already so many things happening with these LLMs that are changing the way industries operate, and they aren’t even that good yet. Your personal bias against this technology has absolutely nothing to do with its applications.

The changes will increasingly be about computational power and the ability to process information at speeds and scales we have never seen before.

And this is where the potential of AGI becomes enormous.

Imagine an entity or device capable of taking essentially the entirety of human knowledge available to it, understanding the relationships between that information, reasoning across multiple fields simultaneously, and processing it at a speed and scale no human being could ever match. Now imagine that system being able to conduct research, identify patterns, generate and test hypotheses, design experiments, write software, analyze enormous datasets, and continuously improve its understanding of a problem.

That isn’t magic. That is essentially the direction this technology is moving toward. Current LLMs are crude and limited compared with what a true AGI would theoretically be capable of, but they are already demonstrating the basic premise: machines can process and synthesize information in ways that are extremely useful to humans.

An AGI capable of reliably doing those things could provide an absolutely massive advantage to humanity. Scientific research that takes teams of humans years could potentially be accelerated dramatically. Complex engineering problems could be attacked from thousands of different approaches simultaneously. Medical research, materials science, energy production, climate modeling, mathematics, and countless other fields could benefit from having an intelligence capable of working continuously across enormous bodies of information.

That doesn’t mean AGI would automatically make everything better. There are enormous risks, economic consequences, alignment problems, and questions about who controls such a system. Those are legitimate things to debate.

But dismissing the technology because you personally dislike current LLM chatbots doesn’t answer the question of what the technology could become.

Go use the technology. Stop being a Luddite when it comes to LLMs. It is already being used as a tool. It already does things that are useful and makes many tasks easier for humans. I know that’s an unpopular opinion on this platform, but it remains true regardless of how much you dislike the technology.

And, for the record, we have not fed “all of human knowledge” into an LLM. These systems are trained on enormous collections of available data, and there are legitimate and significant controversies surrounding the inclusion of copyrighted material in those datasets. Whether copyrighted works should be used for AI training without permission or compensation is a completely legitimate question. But that issue is separate from whether the underlying technology has useful applications.

The point is that AGI doesn’t need to possess every piece of human knowledge to be revolutionary. It needs to be capable of acquiring, understanding, reasoning about, and applying information at a scale and speed that humans cannot match.

If we ever achieve that, the question won’t be whether AGI can benefit humanity. The question will be how humanity chooses to use an intelligence with capabilities vastly beyond those of any individual human being.

Firmly an example of capitalism cannibalism themselves.

It may not abolish copyright but it is causing cracks.

Copyright was always a scam, non personal information should be free. Multiple people can have the same good idea, walling of access to a good idea behind capital blocks human progress.

Before anyone says something, yes artists deserve to eat… just like everyone else. Being economically productive should not be a condition for that. Make your art for fun and enjoy the honor of being copied with a sidedish of UBI.

15 years of non transferable copyright encourages creativity.

Sure, evidence?

Most big authors and artists dedicate their lives to their craft because, and this is true, once they finish writing a book or recording a song, they’ll get paid for people who buy or stream them. Without copyright, there’s zero reason to pay them.

Using existing data on recordings and books we obtain a point estimate of around 15 years for optimal copyright term

Edit: Who down votes an academic reference?

Some things (field of medicine/environmentalism) can’t wait 15 years for an effective democratised solution.

The idea that someone would be rewarded for limiting access to such solution sickens me.

Naturally they would deserve global praise possible in the form of a reward for creating the idea that changed the world for the better, but capitalism is designed to not do so.

To often in industry the actual creative inventor gets nothing, while the company they work under exploits the demand.

If employees owned the means of production, this would be a moot point… Just pointing that out for people.

It would be way less of a problem for sure, but not moot. An individual inventor can still stop other people from using an identical solution simply for being first to file the paperwork.

Seems highly arbitrary. I always think about how early airplane tech was almost all developed in Europe because no one in America could work on anything adjacent after the Wright Bros patented their flyer. Intellectual property is intellectual theft.

It comes from this paper. Using existing data on recordings and books we obtain a point estimate of around 15 years for optimal copyright term

It makes sense that some copyright protection is beneficial to society as it encourages new works.

But I think the important part is to ensure copyright is non transferable. Then large corporations cannot build (and charge for) large libraries.

If we didnt have copyright laws then the wealthy would just copy everyone’s good ideas and ensure the people who created those ideas get little to nothing, like Amazon making their own versions of every popular item and selling it for less than the original product.

You must be joking, the vast majority of patents are owned by large corporations.

Can you give me one example of where copyright is protecting an average wealth citizen?

Enforcing copyright requires you to have the economic resources to create lawsuits when it gets infringed. Sometimes enforcing your rights can costs into millions of dollars. Infringers often have the resources to delay the legal case till you the rightsholder have no more money left to continue.

Places like china don’t care about it either and they will just copy and sell on the western market anyway.

Some sources for the later

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYHIJtQxbzw

qz.com/…/chinas-factories-in-shenzhen-can-copy-pr…

Just because the copyright system has been perverted and bastardized by regulatory capture doesn’t mean the concept of copyright is bad. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I feel that is moving the goal post a bit but i am a history nerd so i will happily read about any historical examples of what you speak. (Not sarcasm i really really love learning and being proven wrong)

Here is what Wikipedia had to say about the orgins of copyright law (tldr its censorship by church and state)

Tap for spoiler

The origin of copyright law in most European countries lies in efforts by the church and governments to regulate and control the output of printers.[12] Before the invention of the printing press, a writing, once created, could only be physically multiplied by the highly laborious and error-prone process of manual copying by scribes. An elaborate system of censorship and control over scribes did not exist, as scribes were scattered and worked on single manuscripts.[13] Printing allowed for multiple exact copies of a work, leading to a more rapid and widespread circulation of ideas and information (see print culture).[12] In 1559 the Index Expurgatorius, or List of Prohibited Books, was issued for the first time.[13]

There is an earlier story about a dispute of a copied work which ended in a battle its said to have caused 3000 casualties, an unreliable number but enough to assume this wasn’t exactly David vs Goliat either.

Remember that it’s always morally acceptable to break in and destroy AI data centers. The only ones harmed are not people.

To my understanding, and excuse me if I‘m wrong because I‘m not a lawyer but that‘s not what the fucking law says? You either uphold copyright law or abandon it. There is no middle way and if courts disagree with you, your stance doesn‘t really matter here.

We are all training our own AI models now.

You misunderstand. YOU can’t use the data. Heck, you can’t easily find it anymore either. They’re scanning all the books and ripping them up as we speak too.

Big companies CAN because they own YOU. Clear?

Uh what do you mean you can’t easily find it anymore? Search engines still exist (perhaps avoid Google unless you have to use it) and neither bookstores, nor the library, are out of books.

The reason they can do this with books is that there are so, so many books that nobody else wants to buy. Like so many that you can just buy books by the foot as a decoration. What books will you get? Nobody knows because nobody gave enough of a fuck to write it down. They’re only valuable for LLM training because they’re new data and they’re only “rare” (as said in some articles) because there wasn’t enough demand to print more.

And destroying the books means there’s no extra copy of them, so for the purpose of copyright law, all is good unless an LLM straight up recites a passage from a book.

Honestly that whole thing might end up being net neutral or even positive, as the paper can be recycled, instead of sitting around as books nobody will read.

They got you hoodwinked there.

They don’t like to talk about it, but the US founding fathers were raging leftists (although that terminology didn’t exist yet). The framers of the constitution had no intention to create a class of intellectual landlords extracting rent from the people. That is why copyright is strictly limited in the constitution.

[the United States Congress shall have power] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clause

The language is archaic. Useful Arts means inventions and Science means knowledge. The economic consequences of copyright are very much at issue.

That AI training is (generally) Fair Use is a no-brainer. It’s actually much harder to justify copyrights for entertainment products.

So it’s eminent domain on other people’s copyrighted content?

Misleading title from Techcrunch. It’s the Trump Administration only (which we already know)

Is there another US government?

The government is not a single entity. When I read “US government” I anticipated congress or a court ruling. But it was neither, just Trump (which we already know)

Those branches are no longer governing. They abdicated their own power.

which technically makes piracy legal because that’s the gov endorsing piracy

Nah we might need to accept reality. You need to be rich enough to make some bullshit company that uses A.I. then you can pirate legally using that A.I. as an excuse.

so Norm was right. …

You need a $$$/hr lawyer to pull <$100 LLC paperwork out of their briefcase. “My client was just training his company’s innovative new LLM.” We live in an odd world.

should update torrent client to say “LLM training agent” instead, legally safe /s

yup

I consider myself somewhat of a LLM.

there’s a Morrissey song about that

Legal for them, not for us

Peasants like us can contribute to global leadership by being wage slaves and cannon fodder

amen, brother!

Those were supposed to be the clanker jobs while we humans guided technical innovation, pursued art, culture, philosophy, and solving the biggest problems of humanity.

There’s not just a desperation for Skynet by US government, like protecting oil from EVs/renewables, this is also about creating new oligarchs to fund electoral results that oppress Americans/humanity.

I am pirating this book to train AI (Actual Intelligence).

Bro we lost global leadership in AI so what are you saying

So what I’m hearing is we now get to have our own Mickey Mouse and Pokemon ripoffs if they are down through OpenAI.

You can make a pokemon ripoff with Photoshop, should Photoshop be illegal? Is it the tools fault or the user’s fault?

Precedent that copyright is not legally enforceable

Precedent that laws don’t apply to billionaires.

Crime is legal now.

Got it, so then they’re outlaws and I can do whatever I want to them.

Precendent was already there. Copyright has never been enforceable when it’s transformative. Collage is legal, so was training neural nets before the copyright industry saw money in it.

No one is saying they output of an llm is copyright (this is a different debate).

What people are talking about is they stole copyright work. They pirated from torrent sights mass amounts of data. That’s the violation at problem.

The output of the training, the model (LLM) itself, is transformative. I’m not talking about the output of the llm nor was the person I was responding to.

The pirating issue has nothing to do with the current lawsuit (the New York Times one mentioned in the article) nor did the government mention it in the current context.

That being said, I’m a pirate in my personal life, and I also think it’s kind of a necessary evil when it comes to building SOTA models. I wish we had a copy left solution to it, so you can use pirated data but need to open source it, so open source has a fighting chance and big AI can buy it if they want it. I’m okay with openAI and anthropic getting brought into court about it I guess, but the legislation ends up being market capture in their favor in the end.

I understand the issues though, very “rule for thee but not for me” currently.

Yeah, I wouldn’t be as upset if the playing field was level. Alright, you can slurp up and remix the world’s works, but so can anyone, for any reason, for free. Personally, I think use restrictions should only target commercial use, but I’m sure that’s a much more divisive topic. We have a law that is not being applied to those most likely to abuse it at scale.

Yeah, the forms of government propped up by capitalism tend to side with capitalism.

“Retain”? What in the actual fuck are you talking about? You surrendered that ages ago.

Gotta keep the voters believing the US is the best at everything.

Chinese models like Kimi are already competing head-to-head with Claude Opus in term of capability. And the main reason that kimi isn’t as widely used as Claude is because Chinese companies aren’t burning investors money to keep subscription prices low. I wonder how long will this dominance can last. Since investor money will eventually run out. and once that happens, what plans do they have to keep competing with free open weight models that already closed the gap.

The problem with capitalism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.

Therefore copyrights mean nothing

streamin.me/v/e8e02891

Aaron Schwartz’s prosecution was always bullshit.

I am okay with that. As long we are consistent with the copyright law. If OpenAI can break copyright to make their own money, it should be legal to me too.

Laws should be the same for everyone and no one should be above the law

I also imagine a world without copyright may not be any worse than the one we’re in. In a lot of ways it would probably be much better.

So… pay for it? It’s not like the money isn’t there

Actually, is not

isaiprofitable.com

True. Profit is about the only thing these companies will never generate, but there’s still money being thrown at them, it’s just being spent on bonuses, mergers, and data centers.

Scrapers could peel off 1B of that to pay for what they’re taking (like the pay for antique, print only books—because they can’t physically steal those) instead of just robbing the commons if they really wanted to, if they thought that anything they were doing was ethically defensible or financially sustainable. ___

Got it, copy right I’d dead then Right?

Rules for thee, not for me.

Pirating anything isn’t illegal anymore. If the government can pick and choose people and groups who don’t have to pay for patent or copyright, then there are no patents or copyrights.

Pirating was illegal? When?

To clarify, this is the government’s position, not the law. This hasn’t been officially ruled on yet.

In a lawsuit that The New York Times filed against OpenAI, the Trump administration has contributed a 20-page brief in defense of the ChatGPT maker’s unlicensed use of copyrighted material to train its LLMs.

However, it’s not looking promising in legal terms either.

Fuck the US government and fuck OpenAI

“Leadership,” well, here’s hopin they find a way to materialize intellectual property and speculative investment, since that’s like, the only metrics they use and neither of them are actually, y’know, real.

It is crazy music samples have stronger laws for commercial usage than AI.

Peak capitalism, steal everything from the masses, remix and regurgitate it so no one is the wiser, then sell it back to them via a subscription model.

Makes me sick.

Of course they did

This just in… I think I’m going to start training my own LLM on various movies, TV shows, and music. US government said it was ok.

Alright, then copyright is dead.

Ad block and canceling subscriptions it is then.

Yarhar!

Really cool how the supreme court doesnt give a shit about the law anymore and like half their rulings are “ik the law says we cant do this, but that would be really inconvenient so it doesnt matter”

I’m downloading all of Netflix library to train my LLM.

Whithouse: which opinion will piss off the most Americans?

Kleptocracy.

Rules for thee and not for me.

Well copyrights either apply to all or to none. We aren’t going to make exceptions for someone’s favourite companies.

The US government is finally learning it’s capitalist system can’t compete with China in terms of AI. Someone finally got through to them capitalism will cause America to lose the AI race. Too little too late. Why they still call everyone communist and socialist, turns out they’re doing the same except it’s corporations that are allowed to be socialists and communists.

So… Let’s steal to advance our country. Really nice.