Most laptops come with it by default, with Linux options either not provided or costing more for the convenience.

Lenovo knocks $59 off for having Ubuntu installed instead of Windows 11.

There are like six manufacturers that let you buy a full-featured laptop without a Windows license included in the price, and one of them is Apple. None of them are budget-friendly brands, except the Chromebook manufacturers who are selling near-e-waste. Microsoft has done a gigantic amount of work signing deals with OEMs over the past forty years to make sure that Windows is the default and keeping it off the device is hard.

Even refurbishers and second-hand resellers often put Windows on a device by default. It’s massively easier to buy a device without an OS at all than it used to be, and even with that, you have to either pay for a more expensive machine or settle for something really underpowered.

Sure, but deal with it before buying it. This is something that should be handled at EU level (or another entity that supervises fair trade) anyway, pressure them to put it into law. Buying such laptops and later demand refund, unless supported by dealer/manufacturer, is not a proper way IMO. Do not get me wrong, I’m with you, it’s just the way that doesn’t seem right.

Ok. But for people who need a laptop today, they don’t have the luxury of waiting for us to live in a more just world. They have to deal with the world we’re currently living in, and this is a fair way of registering our frustrations with the OEMs about the state of affairs they’ve put into place.

Framework, Tuxedo, Apple are just some options.

I mentioned two of those above, and the third is one of the six I was thinking about (alongside System76 and Slimbook, etc; Pine is getting out of the game for the time being, iirc). I own a Framework and love it, but none of them are mid-range brands. None of them ship worldwide. Apple is…well, arguably worse than Microsoft, and they literally only have one mid-range laptop SKU. Likewise, Acer and HP (and maybe Dell?) each have, like, one laptop that will ship without an OS.

This is what I’m saying. Trying to buy a laptop without Windows installed means accepting that you’ll either be buying at a higher rung on the pricing ladder (not that it’s never worth it, but not everyone can afford to climb), or you’ll be buying a disposable machine.

It isn’t that far fetched, even today it’s still uncommon to find anything consumer computing that doesn’t have windows preloaded. Your exceptions are apple devices, mobile devices, and toy computing like the raspberry pi. System 76 exists, and Dell does sell some models without windows, but aside from building one yourself those two sources are like 50% of your choices.

Farfetched … I mean that you buy something and then you demand a refund. It should be sold without Windows in first place. As per Windowsless laptops, there are Framework, Tuxedo at very least and I’m sure others, as well as selected ones from big manufacturers. Vote with your wallet…

It isn’t farfetched to ask for a refund for something forcibly included that you don’t want but is optional and contributing to the cost. Usually it’s up front, sure. But with computers it’s almost always needed to be done after the fact.

Let’s say I’m not using ABS or turn signals (if I have a BMW) with my car. Shall I demand a refund then?

Go for it. Does your sales contract allow for that? The difference is that the Windows license itself allows this and outlines most of what you need to do.

Where does Windows license allow that?

Its in the terms of use. If you don’t want it, you can contact the hardware vendor for a refund. Really, it’s there if you read it. This has been a thing since the 90s. Google is your friend. (For this, anyway. Google is not a friend in general.)

I mean, the best laptops don’t come with Windows, but you already mentioned the MacBook as an exception.

With desktops, I kinda get it if you’re a gamer, but for a laptop… why??

You’re either a troll, or one of the lowest IQ fucks on Lemmy.